Episode 8 - Kara Robinson-Chamberlain
Listening Loudly: Respect Reimagined
Motivation N'at Podcast
Full Transcript
Natalie Bulger (0:49)
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Motivation N'at. I'm Natalie. I am your host. And I am so excited to be here today with one of my friends. And I'm thrilled to be able to call you that. Folks may actually know her, recognize her. She's had movies. She's been a keynote speaker. She is an advocate like none other that I've ever met, honestly, and it's Kara Robinson-Chamberlain. So for those that don't know her, I'm actually gonna let her introduce herself for the most part. I'm gonna give just a very quick kind of summary. But we're here today to talk about respect and I think you'll understand why that's such an important topic when you kind of learn more about who Kara is and what Kara does. So Kara, thanks for being here. You're a public speaker, a survivor advocate and in 2002 at 15, you were kidnapped and escaped from what you would later find out to be a serial killer, which is, you know, we're in the true crime generation, right? You've had a podcast on it, we've talked about it, but to actually kind of be able to tangibly connect with someone who's been there, done that, and gone through something that to many of us are just stories in a lot of ways is just really powerful. And not only that, you took back the power from that narrative in a lot of ways. And you went into the kind of whole process of soup to nuts. What that is with investigating through being in law enforcement, advocating with law enforcement, and just building upon that in ways that I don't think necessarily anyone even realizes you can do that early on in life. So if folks haven't seen, you've got a movie out there, you've got a documentary out there, and I watched it this weekend. It took me a while to get there to be ready to watch it. Watching you repeat things kind of over and over and, you know, ingraining kind of your own self-talk in the process was just absolutely incredible to think about someone as a teenager, kind of pulling that in and embracing that. I don't want to kind of go over things for you. You're a mom now. You are a social media personality influencer person that brings it for so much more. So let me just turn it to you and have you say hello to everyone and let us know what you want us to know about you.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (3:14)
Hi everyone. Thanks for having me. I do wear all the hats right now. I think the thing that most people come to find me from is my story of survival when I was 15. So like you said, I was kidnapped from my friend's front yard when I was 15 by a man that I later found out was a serial killer. So it's a really interesting story. I've told it in a documentary form and in a movie form and was heavily involved in both of those projects, which was really important to me because I have done various media and wasn't necessarily happy with the treatment or the outcome. And so when I decided to make a real go at this thing — this thing that is my current job, which is keynote speaking, influencing, social media things, and hosting things like that — I knew that I needed a standard to point people back to when people are like, who are you, what's your story? I knew that I needed something that I was proud of and I could say, hey, you can go watch this. It shows my whole story. So I entered into this world knowing that I wanted something that I could be involved in. And I was lucky that I had the connections that I had to get me into that world where I was an executive producer, either in name and function or in function, on both of those projects. So what that means for people who don't know is that I had more or less say over the entire project. Network is always going to have some input and they're going to try to steer things, but it was me telling my story, which was really, really important and is often not done. And I would like to see it be the standard, which leads us into what we're going to talk about today. But then the other stuff that I'm doing is I have worked in law enforcement, no longer work in law enforcement, but I do a lot of keynotes to law enforcement. That's kind of my bread and butter and my passion is educating law enforcement in the ways that they can empower the people that they interact with to be survivors. That was really important to me and how I do my keynotes. But I speak to Rotary and leadership groups and I spoke to a group of realtors, like pretty much anyone who wants me to come and speak. I do that as my primary business. And then I do a lot of busting the norms of having to niche down on social media. Like, I'm not a niche. We as humans don't fit into one niche. So if I'm gonna show up on social media, I'm gonna show up as I do in life. I wanna show up authentically and I don't fall into one specific category because yes, I am a survivor, but I don't think about that when I'm telling my story for social media or keynotes. Most of my day to day life is not about that. And so I'm also a mom. I have three kids. I have a preteen and I have two boys, nine and almost 12. And then I have a one and a half year old daughter that has just rocked my world and changed so much about me and who I am as a person. There's something as a woman with complex childhood issues — there is something about having a daughter that even just saying it, I can feel it. A lot of my trauma is held in my chest and my shoulders and I can feel even just saying that it's like a deep breath relaxes in my chest and shoulders. And I get goosebumps because there's something about raising little you and recognizing that you weren't hard to love and you were perfect and you can give this little version of you... I mean, it is too early to be on with the tears. Holy crap. I might be in my luteal phase. Oh my God.
Natalie Bulger (7:30)
Don't worry, same, I'm over here with the little goosebumps crawling up and stuff.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (7:34)
I know. So there's just something really magical about having a do-over kind of, and so I mean, a lot of my day-to-day is that I am a wife of a medically retired, disabled veteran and homeschool mom. People are like, you must love it. I'm like, I don't, I don't love it. It is what's best for our family. So yeah, Cat Mom — you relate with that one. I have three cats, went from zero to three cats in one day. A Belgian Malinois that is like an absolute maniac. Fitness is like a big, big part of my life. And so there's just so many aspects of me that I refuse to fall into a niche. And I think that that's so important to this conversation that we're having. Like, I know we're gonna talk about respect and it just means so many different things and looks so many different ways.
Natalie Bulger (8:48)
Well, and I think you touched on a couple of things. So you and I actually met through an ambassador kind of position with a clothing company that neither of us are with anymore, partly because we were strongly rooted in what we believed in and what we felt was respect from a company to the people that they work with. And it was interesting because it was two separate, kind of our own interpretations of it. Mine was very much as a larger person feeling like I was the token fat girl on the campus and things like that. And you being able to watch people who were very much like you receive different types of attention. Both of us feeling like we couldn't openly share information with the company and things like that. But I think what that brought up was just this like I'm watching, you're watching and we're like, I see you. And there's a couple of us, I think, that have all kind of now kind of formed together. And while that was the bonding moment, what it created is this kind of path forward and us understanding, well, this is what's really important to us when we're talking about the things we engage in and the things that we're involved in. But as you mentioned, respect in that instance looks very different than the respect that you or your children or your husband may receive in our day-to-day life. So as a veteran, I know having worked in the federal veteran space for a while, that's different from veteran to veteran for your husband. Your kids, your sons are gonna be different than your daughters. So I think it's an ambiguous gray area, right? And it's one that's filled with a lot of assumptions — we know the respect we wanna receive, which may not be the same respect someone we're working with or talking to or friends with maybe looking for themselves. And then it changes. I mean, watching again, back to what you've had influence in from being a producer, being able to see especially, and we'll touch on this, the law enforcement piece, right — there are two very different dynamics you were engaged in. One feeling one way, one the other. And having been there myself and having a friend who's been in a similar situation where you have two very different experiences with that. And you're a survivor and in one case, someone's — I want to say, and I won't put words in your mouth, but for me — they're treating you like a child. They're treating you like, well, here's what you have to do. But wanting you still to fulfill this adult role in some way. And then the others who just come in and they're like, all right, you came to us, here's how we're gonna mirror that back to you. And here's how we're gonna work with you. And we're gonna find out what you need in this situation and meet you there. I just think the conversation is probably going to go in a couple of different areas, roundabout in a lot of different ways. The girl mom piece and kind of how she's impacted your physical, like I hold it the same way. When I start to feel like I'm being disrespected, I literally feel this happen. And it's almost like a closeup and like a right, and throwing that physical wall in front of you so someone can back off.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (11:52)
Yeah. It's like protecting your heart.
Natalie Bulger (12:01)
This is not the day and not the person. But so I don't know where you want to start. We can start here and work back, start back and work forward. But I just want to learn what's your journey with sharing with people how you want to be treated? And I hate to say when they put labels on you. So like you said, victim, survivor, those are two very different approaches that folks take.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (12:27)
I want to lead this conversation by saying that the key piece in this respect conversation is going to be communication and the ability to listen, which I think a lot of people might not recognize. Hopefully your listeners do because hopefully they're a little more enlightened, but a lot of people might not realize that listening is a skill. It's a skill that you must cultivate, because I think a lot of us hear things and then we have thoughts that ping off and we go down our own rabbit trails. So respect is going to be highly about listening because once you learn to listen to people, they will tell you what they need very often, especially if you become a safe space. And so that is one of the things that I think is the marked difference in between the law enforcement perspective that you mentioned. I had one agency that — let me say it a different way. So when I was kidnapped, I was kidnapped from one county and I was transported to the neighboring county. So when I escaped, I had an initial incident report from one county and then I had a recovery investigation from the next county. The Richland County ended up taking over the investigation. And the other county, the sheriff within 24 hours was at my house and looked at me and said, well, you know, that guy was going to kill you, right? You know, you should be dead right now. I'm 15 years old and I use this as a teaching moment for my law enforcement keynotes because I sort of give them these benchmarks. Like, is it true? Is it helpful? Is it productive? Like you kind of have to go through these things and I'm like, was it true? Yes, it was true. Did I need to hear that right then? Absolutely not. It was not productive. It was not helpful. And he was viewing my situation through his lens. He had absolutely no way to know that at that point, because we didn't know this guy was a serial killer, but this was not a respectful way to give your opinion. I was not maybe vocally saying what I needed, but body language can tell you a lot, right? I was so overwhelmed at that point. I mean, I had so many law enforcement officers that were in and out and it was so absolutely inappropriate. And then the sheriff of the neighboring county, he never said anything like that. He was just connecting me with all of the resources for victims assistance. He was giving me an award, like I have a photo — I'll send it to you, you can put it in the show notes if you want — but I have a photo of him giving me an award for courage and bravery. I have photos of him taking me to give an award to the two guys that took me to law enforcement. He was always doing things to say, wow, the things that you've done are really amazing and I have respect for you because it's not always an actual conversation. It's sometimes a little more covert than that. So those are the simple things that can make a big difference. And when I'm educating law enforcement, what I try to help them understand is, you know, start by believing. Even I have had a situation in my personal life recently where someone I care about said that they were touched in a way that they were not comfortable with. And then someone that was their parent said, but how do we know that what happened really happened? Like, do we think that they're making this up? And I'm like, it doesn't matter. We start by believing. So with law enforcement as well, I always tell them you start by believing, you tell people, I'm so proud of you. What you did was really difficult. I'm here to help you in whatever way I can. And so there are these little pieces that can be sprinkled into the conversation of even a law enforcement investigation. And I have an acronym that I use that's trademarked — it gives them resources and all kinds of things for what they can do to show respect to people. And it makes such a difference. I've gotten messages from investigators who have said — and I actually have it in my keynote and I show it every single time — it was from an investigator after I spoke in Biloxi, Mississippi, and he said, I work these kinds of cases, sexual assault cases every single day. He said, and I was able to use the words that you gave me when I was working with a 10-year-old victim. And I told her I'm so proud of her and it's really difficult. And I'm a safe space for her and I believe in her. And he said, I've never seen the response that I saw. She looked at me and she smiled. He's like, I will take this into every single investigation going forward. And I was like, that's what it's about. Those moments right there. And so I think the biggest piece that I want to remind everybody about is it's listening. It's watching. It's listening to body language, listening to what people tell you and what they don't tell you. But if you're interested in showing respect to the people in your lives, that's where it starts.
Natalie Bulger (18:18)
Well, and I think that's really powerful because as you were talking I'm thinking this is completely transferable to the medical industry, right? So where I spent 15 years, and it's again a bit of a power dynamic. Law enforcement, they know the constraints in which they may be working in, especially with children, younger victims, things of that nature that are just coming out of a traumatic experience. And it's the same thing with medical, right? You go in, you're in pain, you're sick, you don't know what's going on. And here's this physician, doctor, clinician who is educated, who knows this. They're almost a little deadened to it because you're the 15th patient that's come in with something like that over time. And it's why when you go in for rape kits, things like that, those folks are trained extra in how to work with individuals like that. But it's the same, I think, power dynamic — you've got this kind of authority figure, and then you've got someone else, and it's how patient will someone be trying to listen and transcribe in their head what they're hearing into terms or language that the person can actually ingest. In my own experience as a teenager with law enforcement, I talked about on one of the last episodes, I found out later that the cop that I disclosed to, my mom had been beating me basically, and he said, you have to go to the hospital. And it would have been different had he just said, I'll take you, like we'll take you to the hospital. We'll be with you. That would have given legitimacy.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (19:50)
Right. Or what's even better is education around it. So next steps would be, we would like for you to go to the hospital. Is that something you're comfortable with? Because we can help you get there. Like it is simple language. It's more words, I get it. But I think medical, same thing with law enforcement. Most people don't get into that job for reasons other than, hey, I kind of would like to help people. Most people are like, let's face it, law enforcement specifically, you are not in that job for the money. So you better be in it for the passion, right? I mean, there's going to be people that are in it for the driving fast and shooting guns and the power trip or whatever. There's going to be people in every profession like that. But most people do want to help people and it does get very exhausting. And I have definitely seen that with my husband, with the medical field as well, where he had an injury at work and had to deal with the federal system. He was already retired from the army, medically retired, broke his back. So he retired from the army for that and then was doing contract work for the government and re-broke his back, basically. Got on — and I haven't really talked about this a lot publicly, but it's all resolved now — he got medevaced out of Africa, which is where he was at, home on like an emergency flight and got the first available appointment he could get. His back hurts, first available appointment, orthopedic surgeon makes the most sense. And then just had four years of the insurance company being like, yeah, but you went to an orthopedic surgeon and they didn't see an issue. So you must be fine. He's like, explain to me why I can't get out of bed. And it was four years of, I mean, honestly, absolute hell of dealing with this insurance company. We're done, we're resolved. They settled for pennies on the dollar based on what they should have paid him, which they never paid for a dime of care. Thank God for the VA. We have a great VA in Augusta that he goes to and they've actually been wonderful. He's gotten the pain management program and TBI program and all the things. But it took so long because he's sitting down in front of these medical providers where the first thing he goes to is the orthopedic surgeon and I said, well, you're dealing with someone who's holding a hammer and they don't see any nails. So they're like, we all know what to do, right? Because there was nothing overtly wrong with any of his vertebrae, basically. And he was — you know, like you've been through this as well. So it was just like this process of trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with him. And you just have all these doctors who are not listening and they're not giving any respect — to the point where I'm saying, okay, you know that he has a previous actual fracture in his spine and now he has some sort of issue, a bulging disc, some sort of issue that has just popped up in his low back. Could these things not be connected? And they're like, no, absolutely not. And I'm like, what? So it was just so much lack of respect through that process. And as someone who was highly — I mean, for 20 years in a field where it is about respect, it is about not leaving anyone behind, he felt abandoned very much. And that does such terrible things to everyone's mental health, but men specifically in that arena. It was detrimental. It was pretty difficult and still is a lot of the time for our family as a whole. And so there are just so many ways that you can see respect not being transferred and the long-reaching impacts of that.
Natalie Bulger (24:05)
Well, and I think too, it makes the person question, right? So you're like, well, I can't get out of bed. So is it in my head? Am I making this up? I had a neurologist once who, when I went in and said I changed what I was eating and it helped, she was like, awesome. What was it? I'm going to want to look into it. And I was so shocked. I sat there and just like, really? I expected her to say that must be in your head.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (24:28)
Of course, a neurologist who actually listens.
Natalie Bulger (24:33)
And she asked every follow-up visit, she was like, are you still not eating these food triggers? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, awesome. And I had like a weird side effect to a med and she was like, you're one of 10 cases. I looked it up because this is a weird connection. And she was under 40. So in that, I think it takes a little bit to, you know, there's trauma Olympics, right? So you get in and you're like, is your trauma worse than mine? Is mine worse than yours? But did you have this? But did you have that? And in one sense, it feels almost easier to respect someone that's been through something similar because you're like, I've been there, I get it. But does that also mean you're applying your own interpretation, your own experience and almost not accepting the other person's experience in a way, because we're not cookie-cutter? It is so different for everyone that's been through it. As someone who's meeting a lot of survivors through your work and things like that, have you seen those dynamics kind of play out in different ways?
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (25:45)
I want to tell a story about this actually as you were talking. So when I was getting ready to do my documentary, I knew that in order to tell my story properly, I have to talk about the three other girls that we know my captor murdered. I formed relationships with law enforcement that was very close to the family, the task force for those three homicides was very enmeshed with the family there. And so when I was getting ready to do the documentary, I said, I think it's really important for me to go to these families, to these law enforcement people, tell them what I'm doing and get their blessing. I didn't have to do that, but I felt like that was important to me. And one of the things that was really important to me, and something that I do in my keynotes, is that when I tell the stories of these three girls, they are not just names that were murdered by this person. They were fully fledged humans. They were not a niche. They were not just a murder victim. They were girls with futures and dreams and interests and hobbies and friends and people who loved them. And I want to talk about the humans that they were, not just the worst time of their family's lives and the end of their lives. And so I sat down with one family. I told them that. I said, I would really like to get your blessing. I explained why I'm doing it, and one family said, that's amazing. 100%, you have our blessing. We can't participate for our mental health, it's not something that we're able to do, which I was not asking them to do, but 100%, you will always have our backing and our blessing. Fantastic. The other family, I sat down with them and said all the same things. And I sat across from a mother who said, I don't ever want their name to come out of your mouth because I understand what you're saying, but I wasn't able to protect them while they were alive. And this is the only way I can protect them, is protecting their memory. I was doing what I thought was the right thing to respect this family. And I ended up hurting them. I sobbed for probably 48 hours straight. It was the worst feeling. But it's a perfect example of how everyone is so incredibly different. And then at the end of the day, they came back and they were like, well, we weren't saying that you don't have our blessing. And I had to work around how do I respect their wishes, but still do this project in a way that makes sense. And I had the respect, I had the trust, I had the involvement from my production company in which we were able to do that in a way that I think turned out perfect. But there are just so many things that look different. And even when we are doing our best, we're gonna screw up. And I think it's important to remember that and just continue having those conversations.
Natalie Bulger (29:24)
Well, and I think as you're telling that story, you know, I'm also thinking of whether you probably realized it or not, you had to have exhibited signs of being an active listener in a safe place for them to even be able to say, no, we don't want this to happen a certain way, versus just, nope, we're not going to meet with you, we're not going to talk to you, or feeling like they have to agree to it, which is the other component, right? People going, well, they're not gonna respect me if I say something they don't wanna hear, because it's the fear that they're not actually listening to you and hearing what you're saying. And I think that's honestly one of my massive triggers is the moment I think someone hasn't heard me. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna say anything. So it's not like a yelling, screaming, it's just like I'm not wasting my voice on you anymore. And I think part of that also then ties back to, and I don't know if you feel this in our generation, but this component of understanding it could have been worse. So, count your blessings. Like this is the whole gratitude conversation where it's been weirdly like weaponized in some strange way. Or just going, well, you know, I was a part of it somehow, or I could have done something different, or it's that whole retrospect of wanting to add new variables to a situation and almost — for me, it's a survival mechanism of minimizing the trauma to yourself so then you feel like you can kind of move on and get back to life or whatever versus taking the power of the story and the narrative. And that's what I think you're a fantastic example of, is taking that power, taking that narrative. And I'm excited watching your daughter grow. I think it's even gonna be more of a development of that story because as you said, it's a chance to kind of actively do what now you know, maybe, hey, I needed this back then, or I have a chance now to pay it forward in a way to your own love. But just as you're thinking back on that a little bit, have you at any point caught yourself minimizing your experience or your role as a survivor in order to maybe be more respected, or wanting to shout it more to be like, no, you don't understand? What's been some of that dynamic for you?
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (31:54)
I think the most notable for me is, first of all, I always feel so awkward when people are like, oh my God, what you did is so amazing. And I'm like, I don't feel like that. I have learned to accept what other people say, but for me it was survival. And I think for most people, when you go through something where you literally are surviving and you get on the other side, you don't feel like, oh my God, I did something amazing. You were like, my choices were die or don't. Like, it was not this amazing thing that I did. I just didn't die. And I understand it's more than that. But I think the biggest thing for me is I was in the law enforcement academy and we had someone come in and speak. We had someone that came in and he told a story of how he was essentially chasing a bad guy, came around the corner of a building and there was someone standing there with a gun pointed at him. He got shot with a .22 point blank range to the head. And he was out of radio signal. And so he walked himself to a road that was like a mile away where he knew he had radio signal and they played his call to dispatch, so eerily calm after he's been shot in the head. I remember listening to the story and thinking, holy shit — I can say shit on your podcast, right? I remember thinking, holy shit. If I got shot in the head, could I walk a mile and make a cool, calm, collected call to dispatch or would I be hysterical? I'm like, I don't know if I could do that. And then a day or two later, I recognized that a lot of people hear my story and they think the same thing. And so here I was minimizing what I did and glorifying what this person did. And then a few years ago, I was on Marcus Luttrell's podcast. And we get done and he's like, I just have to tell you, like, what you did was so amazing. And the irony of Marcus Luttrell telling me that he's inspired by me and what I did. He's like, I just don't know if I could do that. And I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, I don't think I could do what you did. So here is this person who has this amazing survival story, literally like the only person that survived this horrific incident, telling me that he's minimizing his thing and glorifying what I did. And so I think it's very normal to have these comparisons and I get it in my inbox all the time. Well, what I survived wasn't as bad as what you did, but, and I just want to encourage you that there's no as bad as. If it was difficult to you, it was difficult. So respect your journey, respect your story. That doesn't mean I think that our generation, as you touched on, has all of these things that we don't recognize where it's, it could have been worse. It's like this toxic positivity, I think it all kind of falls under this toxic positivity umbrella. And it's like, because most people are not comfortable with being uncomfortable, that's the gist of it. It's like, well, it could have been worse, and I think it's very difficult for a lot of people to sit in difficult feelings. And that includes us sitting with our own stuff. And so we can minimize our own stuff and glorify someone else's because we just don't know how to not compare and we don't know how to sit in the difficult stuff sometimes. I think it really does all come back to this respect piece of like, if someone is going through something difficult, someone I love is currently in the midst of something very difficult. And I am trying to encourage her to remember that more than one thing can be true. Like you can respect someone else's story of survival and yours. You can be so happy that something happened or, but still be so sad about something else. We are dynamic, we are multifaceted and you can be more than one thing at a time. I feel like it just keeps coming back to that. So I think it really does all tie back into respecting all of those pieces of yourself.
Natalie Bulger (37:04)
Yeah, it's very much a yes-and versus a no-but. I think that's more and more coming to fruition. But you led right into kind of one of the main components as we shift into reflections and stuff, but there is an intricacy that exists in a world where you put yourself out there in a way that wasn't possible 15 years ago. Social media has created this lifestyle of comparison on steroids. And not only does it bring out the people who want to celebrate you in a lot of ways or bring power to that, but it brings out people who have the opposite reaction, whether they're survivors themselves and lashing out in some way, or they're people who just don't understand, don't want to understand, don't want to actively listen to anything. And I know you've talked about it a little bit, but how have you, I think, because this is where we get into, those people don't really, I hate to say, deserve respect in a lot of minds or books because of how they're acting, but this is where that gray space comes in. Yeah, no, I'm not going to respect you. That doesn't make me a bad person. And how much energy do you even put in responding to things like that? So I know it's been something you've worked through. So what have been some of your experiences as someone who has, we talked about before the show started, wanting to share and improve things, therefore needing to put yourself out there? You become this label of influencer, and then there's backlash that comes flying at you.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (38:42)
I think it's a hierarchy. I think it's remembering that first and foremost, it's like you respecting yourself and then the people that you love and care about. Like it's like ripples in a pond, right? Or a pyramid, however you want to look at it. You don't need to give your energy and your respect to the people that don't matter. Like, I hate to say that, but one of my friends currently has a really cool video that's going viral and she's getting just so much hate on it. She's a real estate agent and she's like, these people are commenting and they're saying that this listing is so overpriced and it's making her spiral and making her second guess herself. And I'm like, well, you need to turn off the comments. Don't read them because I've had so much of this where I think that I entered into the world, let's say it maybe a different way, I earned virality once I had already had enough confidence in who I was and what I was doing that it didn't shake me. Because I get comments all the time. I mean, honestly, the probably the most common is, wow, you're just making it your whole personality. And I'm like, I wish I couldn't. Like it's the only thing people want to talk about. I'll make a video about my hair and people will be like, how did it feel when you were kidnapped? I'm like, bitch, I would like to not make it my whole personality. Or oh, only 18 hours. And I'm like, yeah, bitch, because I escaped. So I mean, I get a lot of that. And honestly, my response at this point is to challenge those people because I think a lot of the time these people who have these types of responses, they're used to just being able to say whatever they want to whoever they want. And I'm like, no, like you're not gonna come into my space and disrespect me because if you are disrespecting me, who is a very confident, very public, hopefully empowering survivor, I know that you are disrespecting people in your personal life and the buck stops here. Like we don't do that here. And so I will never not challenge an online bully if I have the time, which for the most part I find the time for that, cause I'm like, let's go. I'm like, get on my little keyboard. I'm like, you messed with the wrong one. So I will always, always challenge because I think we are living in this world in which we are just seeing more and more and more content and it is desensitizing us. It's turning the everyday person into the law enforcement person where you see so many true crime stories that you just are numb to it and you forget that there's a whole person. Like that hour of your life in which you just watched that documentary or that movie, that was the worst day of someone's life and you enjoyed consuming it. And I think people often forget that there are real humans, these are real people that are at the center of these stories that deserve your respect. And it's part of the narrative that I have been very intentional about changing. I had one gigantic creator with millions and millions of followers make a story about me, post it across platforms and conservatively, knowing monetization and how it works, conservatively made 20 to $50,000 off of telling my story. Did not tag me. A lot of people still found me. Did not ask permission, did nothing to point back to me. That's not always possible, I recognize that. However, if you are doing research for your story and you Google my name, the first thing that comes up is my website and the second thing is my Instagram. So I am very, very easy to find. So the fact that you did not do that is negligent. And if you look at any other realm in which someone is telling someone else's story, let's say you did work and I'm now gonna pass off your work as my work and I'm gonna get paid for that work, that's extortion. So why are we not extending that same level of respect and care to telling survivor stories that we would show to anything else? And so when I tell these stories, I'm like, it's not about the money. It is about the respect of, I know you're making money. So it just feels gross. And I have been having these conversations for five or six years at this point and when I first started, there weren't a lot of people that were talking about it. And people would hear these stories on social media and they're like, wait, that is gross. And I'm like, yeah, like you never thought about it. Because you're consuming hours upon hours of true crime podcasts every day and you're not considering that the people that are making these podcasts are living in million-dollar houses in the Hollywood Hills and they're not paying people like me. That doesn't feel gross to you? So I actually was on a very popular podcast that did something similar to me and I challenged them on that. I was like, listen, this is what ethicality demands. And I didn't want to do that podcast, if I'm honest, because there was a whole lot of ethical stuff behind the scenes that was going on that I knew about that wasn't made public yet. And I was like, but I have the possibility to change a lot of people's opinions about what this conversation should and could look like if it were done in a respectful, ethical way. And so many people have heard that and sent me messages and said, wow, you really changed the way I thought about this. And I was like, well, that was worth it then.
Natalie Bulger (46:03)
Well, and I think you bring up something really interesting. I've only been a month or so doing some of this on my own and getting away from corporate life and trying to realize all of the protections that you need. ChatGPT and I are best friends when it comes to website terms of use and privacy statements and all of the stuff, like how do you copyright something to make sure that those protections are there, because it is the silent invisible components that allow you to maintain the ownership and power of the story that you have in a way that lets you be the anchor point, right? The author of all of that. I think I'm always a proponent of, if you hate what someone's putting out there so much as an influencer, you can just unfollow. Unfollow buttons are really easy to use.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (46:51)
Absolutely. Scroll. Just scroll past it. Like you don't have to take the time to type a little comment with your little tippy-tappies.
Natalie Bulger (47:00)
Well, and if it's invoking that much of a guttural energy from you, the question is, what are you seeking by kind of continuing to put that in front of your face and then needing to tell people? It's almost a weird cry for help, but we are not here to therapy anyone at this point. We are here to manage ourselves.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (47:16)
Right. Not my job. Like, not my sink, not my dishes. They are not mine to worry about.
Natalie Bulger (47:29)
And I love how this has shifted. What I think it brings up is how many variables come into play in every unique situation that we find ourselves in. And to your point, what you said at the very beginning is you don't even know what those variables are unless you really listen. And that means keeping your mouth shut for a certain amount of time so that it can get in and process and then you can speak. And I mean, I'll say this, my husband and I got into it yesterday because I had a moment where I said, you are not hearing me. And I just kept interrupting and interrupting and interrupting. It wasn't until we kind of stepped aside and said, okay, you're going to finish what you're saying and then I'm going to say something, and just rules to kind of put in place. And I think they're healthy to have. But so as we look through kind of everything that we've chatted about, one of the things I wanted to end with, as a challenge to you, is what are two pieces of advice for someone that's trying to figure out how to respect other people, but also for those on that receiving end. If you're feeling like you're not respected in the way that you're looking for, what are some quick questions, some quick tidbits, reminders that you can kind of take no matter which end of that conversation you might be on?
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (48:46)
I think two things are most important for this conversation on either side. First is to do some introspection, figure out what your, I wouldn't even call them boundaries, I would call them guardrails, more than anything. Where your guardrails are on your respect. Because if you don't know, you don't know. And you're going to find yourself being triggered by what people say. I mean, I had this situation recently. I had like a complete fricking meltdown. I came home and my husband had painted the whole inside of the house and I lost it and I was like, why? I was like, ChatGPT, why am I melting down? Like why am I literally in the shrimp position in my bed on the verge of tears? So I had to do some introspection because I recognized that it felt disrespectful to me for some reason and why was that? And so you need to know where your guardrails are and you need to be able to communicate them effectively. If you don't feel confident doing that, then you're going to be triggered a hell of a lot. Like it's going to happen. And then the flip side of that is you need to be willing to listen to other people and what they're saying, because they actually might tell you things that you recognize. You might hear someone say something and it's like a light bulb. I feel like everyone right now is ADHD. I don't know a single person who's not ADHD. And so I think one of the things that I personally have had to learn how to do is, I hear you say something and I relate to that, and I want to tell my side of that. And most people are a little ADHD and don't get too offended by that. Or it's, I will forget if I don't say it right now. So you take notes, like whatever that looks like. Take a little discrete note. And be like, I want to circle back around to this, because you want to respect your own opinions, your own thoughts, and the other person's too. So it's just kind of this constant dialogue, this ebb and flow of trying to figure out where you are, where they are, learning, listening, and it's a constant journey because it's going to change and you're going to change, and they're going to change and the world is going to change. So it's just constantly changing and evolving. And I guess I'm at the age now where I feel like the closer I get to 40, it's kind of interesting to figure out who I am and what makes me tick and what makes other people tick. And I don't feel like that happens before a certain age necessarily. So it's fun to me.
Natalie Bulger (51:44)
Speaking from experience having just turned 40, I feel like this is the first year where I felt like I didn't have to fit into someone else's mold. And I don't know if it's because when I turned 40, I was like, I'm not completely gray, only a little bit. My joints hurt a little, but that's okay. Like it was like everything that you subconsciously anticipate wasn't there. And I'm like, I don't have to do it the way that everyone else may have said to do it. And I think that's also kind of the last thing I really wanted to touch on, which is this idea of giving grace and taking that defense posture down when it comes to yourself more than anything. So ADHD, we hyper-fixate like no one's business. And I will think about that time when I was 27 and I cut someone off in traffic and I probably ruined their day and they hate me. And it'll just kind of spiral. And then you'll think of every other time and it just grows and grows. And then you end up in that posture again. So having to take those deep breaths. And I think as we wrap up, we'll encourage everyone to take a deep breath and just kind of think of something. But how have you found giving yourself grace, and what does that look like when you think, I could have approached that differently? And I won't even say better because I think we always do it the best we can if we're being honest, and hindsight's 20/20. But you can't apply that when you look backwards because there's nothing to change.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (53:11)
I heard someone say something once that I think about at least once a day. It's become like a mantra for me. And it's, we judge other people by their actions and we judge ourselves by our intentions. And I think that's important to keep in mind, is that we know all of our inner workings and we can see how we were selfish in doing this or how we had two options but we took the wrong one, right? And I think that is important when we are viewing ourselves — we view ourselves through that own lens. It's not easy. It takes practice. I mean, it's over and over and over again. For a lot of people it's affirmations. It's remembering that you did the best that you could in that moment with what you had. And so maybe that's something that you just have to ingrain in yourself. Something that I come back to time and time again is, if on a scale of one to a hundred, because a percentage makes more sense, if you only had 30% of yourself to give today, that's all that you have and you gave 30%, you gave 100%. And sometimes people are like, wait, what? So I'll say it again: if you only had 30% and you gave 100%, you gave all of it, you gave 100%. It's like, if I only have three cookies and I gave you three cookies, I gave you 100% of my cookies, right? And so I think, like I tell my kids this all the time because my oldest especially, he beats himself up with school a lot. And I'm like, all I want you to do is the best that you can do today. I don't care how it compares to that person's best, to that person's best. And I know that the things that I'm saying, or I hope, and research says that the things that I'm saying become my children's inner voice later. And so it's just telling yourself, I can only do the best with what I am given today. I'm not gonna judge myself by what I could do yesterday, what that person can do, what I think I could do next week. And it's telling yourself that over and over and over. And I think sometimes keeping records of your successes can be helpful too, because we can get mired down in our failures. And this is actually, for anyone who's spiritual, it's a biblical principle of keeping Ebeneezers. It's like when they were wandering in the desert, they would keep basically tokens, monuments of God's faithfulness. And so it's something that's transferable to life. Keep a journal. Keep a journal of your wins, keep a journal of your gratitude, your happy moments, whatever that looks like for you so that when you have those moments, I do this with my keynote speaking and with my social media, I have a folder on my phone with screenshots of my wins. And it helps me on those days where I'm like, I hate this. I look back at that photo album in my phone and I'm like, okay, I'm doing something important. And so I think that that's some of the ways that I have learned to instill grace to the people I care about, my children, and myself. But honestly, just keep fricking going. Like you're gonna fall down and success is just getting up one more time than you fall down. Like, that's all you have to do. You just have to get back up. It's so simple.
Natalie Bulger (57:11)
It really is. And I think in these 50-some minutes that we've had, hopefully what people are taking away is that yeah, we touched on that thing that started to kick you into the direction that you've gone, but how much more there is. I go back to the story you told about who those individuals were that have been involved in your story. And that applies to you too, and who you are, who Kara is. And if you've been listening to this and you're like, okay, I need to hear more. I want to hear more. Or I'm in a hospital and we need someone to come in and talk to us, especially right now where there is fear of will my care continue? Is my hospital going to stay open? Do we have enough primary care doctors? Like all of those things. I think that's where messages like yours become so much more powerful because they ground us in a lot of ways and they bring us back to the basics of how do you connect with people, how do you listen to them? Your keynote information is available on your website, kararobinsonchamberlain.com. You're working on some amazing things, so by the time we get this up, the website will be back up and updated. Your social media is out there. There are snippets of some of these great nuggets that are always available if people are interested. You interact with your followers in just absolutely amazing ways. And you have some of the best skincare recommendations. If you're watching the video, Kara's skin is just glowing and unreal for someone that was like, I'm going to be 40.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (58:39)
It's my trauma coping mechanism, don't worry. People are like, what do you do for skincare? I'm like, you don't want to know, it is so extra. Like literally every day I look at my husband and I'm like, I'm so low maintenance. As I'm like standing on my vibration plate and wearing my red light mask, I'm like, I'm so low maintenance. So extra.
Natalie Bulger (59:03)
Well, you influenced me to get a vibration plate. I have one. I've been on and off for my knee. I love it. And it's so funny when I get off, I can tell the difference, because for folks that don't know, I have a lot of knee issues. I've had fluid kind of building up in my knee area. And I'm like, all right, we just need to shake the fluid loose. And I mean, I have arthritis through that whole left leg. And so I think the aggressive yet gentle slow component has helped really stabilize a little bit. There's a huge variety of vibration plates out there. It just makes me think of the fifties, you know, where the ladies were on the plates. Yep, it all comes back around.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (59:39)
It's true! I love a gadget. What can I say? I love a gadget. I have all kinds of gadgets and tools and things. As I'm looking at my husband's cart of pain management gadgets and tools that's right in front of me, these came from the VA. I'm like, oh yeah, we got gadgets. Like people come over and they're like, oh, my neck hurts. I'm like, you want a thing? We got things. You can stand on the vibration plate. You want a massage gun? I can cup you. We got red light. I don't know what you want. So I'm always trying to make recommendations that are authentic to things that I actually use, whether that be skincare, which is my primary self-care coping mechanism, or vibration plates, you know, I'm just out here being real, defying all the niches like serial killer survivor, but look at my skin. Buffalo Bill and dark humor.
Natalie Bulger (60:44)
That's my coping message too. Don't worry. And the animal rescue thing that you've started to touch on, we have a thing. I'm gonna have the rescue owner on a future pod where we play a live or dead and we send a picture of a kitten that came in in really bad shape and we're like, did it survive or did it not? Like it's horrible, but it is how you kind of navigate through things like that. So if you want more nuggets like that, more recommendations of authentic awesome things, Kara is out there on Instagram, TikTok, all the things. Follow her, hit her up on the website. If you are from my medical community, again, I cannot say enough. I've told Kara a couple of times, I've got conferences that I think we should pitch you into because the discussion really, I think, pulls us out of our mindset of do we have enough revenue, do we have enough RVU codes, do we have enough this or that, and it becomes about the person. And I'll just sort of go all the way back to what you originally said. People get into these jobs and these roles, whether it be law enforcement, medical, whatever, to help people. And the goal of this podcast is to help people. And as we close out, Kara, will you take us through just a quick 60-second deep breath, relaxed moment? You think about your daughter when you do yours, but just close us out with something so everyone can kind of decompress for a second and walk out.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (62:12)
My favorite breath work, like parasympathetic, which is your rest and digest tool that I use, it's simply your exhale being longer than your inhale. So we'll breathe in for four. We will not hold because that's triggering. And then we will exhale for eight. Ready and inhale one, two, three, four. Out two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. So you can repeat that as many times as needed and that actually will trigger your rest and digest. It's the opposite of your fight or flight. So use it as many times as you need. It's a wonderful, easy thing to do.
Natalie Bulger (63:08)
Well, Kara, thank you so much for taking your morning, being on the show with us, and hopefully you get a new batch of people involved in supporting the amazing work that you do. And I hope that you and the little ones have a really good day and enjoy everything. Thanks again for being here.
Kara Robinson-Chamberlain (63:29)
Thanks for having me.