Episode 55 - Jeremy Carter
Suicide Prevention: Peer-Led Support After a Suicide Attempt
Motivation N'at Podcast
Full Transcript
Natalie Bulger (00:01)
Jeremy Carter is a social worker who spent his career helping people get housed and stable, something that earned him a Pittsburgh 40 under 40 award just a few years ago. And then he found himself on a bridge, ready to jump. A stranger slamming on her brakes is the reason he's still here. And what he did with that second chance, building a peer-led support group for people with suicidal ideation when nothing like it existed, is what we get into today.
This episode contains open conversations about suicide and self-harm. If this is something you are currently navigating or have navigated, please honor where you are at right now. It's okay to pause, skip, or come back to this episode when you're ready. If you need support, contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988.
Free, confidential support is available 24-7.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Motivation N'at My name is Natalie. I'm your host, and this is where we take hot mess to high potential. Today I am blessed and grateful to be joined by Jeremy Carter. I'm going to introduce him just very quickly for folks, but really, this is going to be a space for Jeremy to share his story and his advocacy with all of us here. Not only if you are in the Pittsburgh general area, but this is something that goes far beyond that. So
Let me introduce Jeremy. Jeremy Carter is a social worker by background, like me. We actually graduated, I think, from the same school here in Pittsburgh. But he's also a 40 under 40 recipient who helped more than 5,000 people find housing during his time as a housing manager for a major insurance plan. And he helped fundraise for animals who were displaced by a fire at a homeless shelter. He also found himself on a bridge, ready to jump, literally.
And five months after that, he still didn't have consistent care. So he turned what he needed into advocacy and created still here a peer-led support group for those who have attempted suicide or struggle with suicide ideation. And there's just so much to dive into here. And Jeremy, I just want to say thank you for joining and having this conversation here in this space. And I would just love to not ramble any further and hand it to you and learn more about you. Learn about this, this journey that you've been on and the experience that you've had and how everything has kind of landed where it is today. But tell us who Jeremy is.
Jeremy Carter (02:40)
Yeah yeah. well Natalie, I wanna thank you first for inviting me to this and hosting the conversation. I think, you know, in my experience, the more people can talk about this subject, the more the less stigma is attached to having these conversations. And I think that's a big part of what we're gonna talk about today. So thanks for for having this conversation, like you said, I'm social worker by training and education. I've worked in the housing and homelessness field for my career, about fifteen years. So I've always been passionate about helping other people. and I s actually started my career through AmeriCorps. So like public service is really ingrained in like who I am and what I like to do. but you know, social workers are not immune to mental health.
And in fact, social workers take a lot of burden of mental health vicariously through our work. And so, you know, last year, around June 2025, I found myself kind of on the opposite side, someone who needed help. And you know, when people get to that point of kind of hopelessness, it it's not usually like one big event. Yeah, sometimes it is. A lot of times it's just this gradual, slow building thing that happens that you just start to lose connection, you start to lose joy in things, you start to go more into those deep thoughts, those negative thoughts, and like it just starts to build. and for me, I woke up one day after You know, I'm done. I had thought about it. It was just kind of almost a more to me it felt like more of a logical decision than an emotional one. I was just like, I've thought about this, I'm done, like I'm just so I went to my normal therapy appointment that day. like I was supposed to. And I I got to the appointment and I sat there and I said, I know what you're gonna do, but I have to tell you, like I'm I've thought about this and I'm I'm ready to just be done with everything. I you know, and I don't know what to do, but I'm here telling you 'cause like that's what I thought I was supposed to do. And then the therapist did what they were supposed to do, which was about to call resolve, which is our crisis service here in Pittsburgh. And I said, Thank you, but I'm leaving. Because I was more afraid of being stopped than anything else at that in that moment. and so I left. of course she then called my husband, tried to get him to contact me while I was driving to the bridge. No one knew what bridge I was going to, except for me.
And I missed like a dozen calls from him on the way there. I took one call and it was and I just remember I don't remember much about the phone call, but I remember one thing I kept saying was, My mind and body is telling me I have to do this. In the moment, that's what I felt. I walked to the bridge, I paced, I saw the call 988 signs on the bridge and thought Yeah, I've tried that before. and I stood on the bridge, I climbed the rail and I sat there for a few seconds thinking Okay, I'm gonna do this. And at that point, some woman on the bridge slammed on her brakes, got out of her car, started screaming at me. And I don't remember much Natalie about what she was saying, but it was enough to break the fog. Someone there physically trying to reach me was enough for me to step down from that railing. and that's something I want to talk about more in a little bit is like it's it it just takes someone to help break that fog to get them out of that thinking, that spiral that seemed so deep. for me it was a stranger and my husband in my mind, like, continuing to try to reach me. And so I got down, I walked back to my car. I have no idea who she was, or what she was even trying to say as I was walking away. I was just so in a weird spot in in my mind. I came home and just cried so much with my husband, not knowing like, you know, an hour ago I was planning to be dead. and now what?
That was the biggest, strangest transition for me is like, okay, now what? and that now what really propelled me to start still here and like this whole process that I've had of like I don't know what to do now. I turned to the system that I worked in almost my whole career thinking that they would be there to help me and in lot of ways they weren't. In some ways they were. and when I found that I just couldn't find the right support for me after months and months and months of trying to go through the system, I thought I'm just gonna do it myself. 'cause I reached out let me back up a little bit. When I got out of intensive outpatient treatment, 'cause I checked myself in voluntarily two days after my attempt because I knew I needed the help. and what I found most helpful in that whole program, because you have individual therapy, you have group therapy, you have psychiatrists, you have everything, was the group therapy really helped me realize one, I'm not alone in these thoughts, and two, just listening to other people's stories and issues and how they work through them and that type of stuff was so impactful for me to just sit there and hear, even if I didn't share, just hearing from other people, like, they have these thoughts too. this is how they get through it. And that's what I missed. And so when I finished Intensive Outpatient Program, I was like, Where do I keep finding that support? So I went to general mental health support groups and did not find what I was looking for because it was any and all mental health, which can be helpful for a lot of people. But there was also some censoring that was still going on in support groups of like, don't say this because you'll get reported, or don't say this because this isn't the right spot to talk about that. and I constantly felt myself censoring myself to make sure I didn't sound like a risk.
And so when I, you know, really wanted to keep f finding that group support, but I couldn't find it in the general mental health groups, I started asking around well, is there a mental or support group for people with suicide attempts or suicidal thoughts? Like 'cause that's really what I wanted. And I kept asking around you know, so many organizations and the county and NAMI which is the National Alliance for Mental Illness. And everyone told me the same thing. Nope, doesn't exist. And I thought, okay, well I talked to NAMI and I said, why? Why doesn't this not exist? Because suicide rates in Allegheny County keep going up. They're not going down. and billboards and nine eighty eight is not enough and they said, Well, actually we had this as a goal, but we haven't had anyone to really take it on. And I said, So let me do it. and I started developing the the group, but ran into some kind of bureaucracy issues with a national mental health illness organization who was worried about risk and liability. And I actually, Natalie, I heard that from so many people saying like, Well, no, because there's risk and liability.
And you know what I told each and one of them, Natalie? The risk and liability of not doing this is greater than the risk of liability of doing it. and people understood, but they were still within organizations that were too worried about doing it. So at one point in like October, November, I said, listen to myself, I'm not going to wait for something that I need that I know other people might need to. I'm just going to do it and see what happens. And so I told Nami, thank you very much, but I'm just going to keep doing this on my own because people need it. And there's about four people each week on average in Allegheny County that are dying by suicide. I'm not gonna continue to wait. in December I had my first meeting. And I didn't know Natalie. I thought maybe a few people would show up. The room filled. and we ran out of chairs. And Every single person shared something, something real and honest and deep. and that is when I realized this is something larger than myself. This is something other people needed. This is something people were saying that they were looking for. and the conversations that were happening were just demonstrating that people were seeking for this type of space, not not even support, but just a space to be able to share real thoughts and honest emotions without the fear of being reported. so that's kind of my journey and like how everything happened and and how I ended up just doing it.
And so we've had now five or six meetings so far. And we have between like twelve and twenty five people that come every month, which is large for a support group, let alone a new one and something kind of niche for people with suicidal thoughts and attempts. So that's kind of the journey in a nutshell.
Natalie Bulger (14:29)
Well, we're gonna get into definitely some different segments of that. And I I have to preface two things, which is, you know, when you mentioned no one knew what bridge I was going to. For those not familiar with Pittsburgh, we have 400 of them. So the standpoint of and this goes to the different lethality methods, right? That people have available to them. Coming from the VA, the big conversation was firearms because so many veterans are familiar with the use of firearms. Pittsburgh, you just drive somewhere and there's a lethal option for you, you know and so the the way to have the conversations in the space where people have a I don't wanna say the same similar experiences from the different pressures of society, even your geographic setting, even those kind of things are some of those elements that I think come into play of of what kind of is sitting and facing you. I, I, as you said, your story just was, and I'm sure folks that were listening, I mean, chills kind of over the body in the sense of the honesty of it, from a an element that a lot of people have been impacted by a loved one who has either attempted or you know, carried out a suicidal ideation of some nature. And one thing you often don't get is that perspective of what was happening at that moment or what was the thoughts. And they're not the end all be all answers, right? You don't know. You just like, I don't remember. I I'm not really aware. And that's that's something I think those that are on the supportive side, we need to learn to accept and not keep digging because as you were saying, like, hey, it's the snap out of the fog.
And I think sometimes we just want to fix it so quickly that we're like, but why, but why, but why? And the only thing right now is, are you safe in this moment? And how can I help you be safe? And how can I, you know, help with that? so thank you for allowing that that viewpoint into there. And I know when we had initially talked a couple of months ago, I shared, you know, my former partner's brother is in Allegheny County suicide from a few years ago. you know, I myself after my dad died, had a night where I said, I just want to go to sleep and I really not care if I wake up. And I know that that's a thought process people have and they may not realize if that is continual, you might you might need a conversation about it because one of the things you said in a couple of the the writings that you have done, which by the way if folks you know Google you, it comes up and they're they're again very transparent is this feeling of being numb more than anything else. And so it's not the standpoint of I'm cried you cried afterwards, but ahead of time it was just this I've made this decision, kind of flat affect feeling. And I rem I remember it. And I remember the interactions that we had with the people that we've lost that were very similar. Can you talk a little bit about one, how to recognize that in yourself and how others may recognize it in people that they see. So you know I'm sure you've had the conversation with your husband and others around you of like, okay, the well this was these were some of the signs that I might have been exhibiting or how to interact with me if I'm having that affect of non-engagement in some fashion.
Jeremy Carter (17:57)
Yeah, that's a really important part of this discussion because I think a lot of people think that numbness feeling means kind of an absence of feeling. And it really wasn't. Like I still felt stress, I still felt anxiety, I still went to work and did my things. But there was a lack of joy, lack of motivation, lack of wanting to connect, a lack of thinking about the future. and for me, you know, when I went through intensive outpatient program, you know, part of that is a mental diagnosis. And well, one, my first diagnosis was wrong. I can get into that. But my second real diagnosis was borderline personality disorder, which was a little bit shocking to me as a social worker, I thought I wouldn't know if I had this and know. and you know, part of that diagnosis is really learning about yourself. and that was a whole learning process for me of like learning what does this mean about how I need to watch out for myself. and a lot of that is a lot of negative thinking. and that's really what got me into these like spirals.
That I used to get into and and sometimes still do. I'm not healed. and right for me right now it's recognizing those signs and through therapy and research and just having conversations with my husband, of like recognizing when I'm going into those moments and trying to just mitigate the constant digging deeper into those spirals and so for me, alone time, I thought I wanted alone time in those moments. Sometimes I do. And sometimes it is the worst thing for me to do because it's me alone in my thoughts. And for a lot of people, that's the worst place to be. It's an echo chamber of your own negative thoughts. And it is so hard to get out of that sometimes. And the longer you're in it, the harder it is to get out of it and so for me it was recognizing as much as I may think that I want alone time, it's not a good space for me and to reach out and even if I don't want to talk, just being with my husband or someone, just being there is helpful and and and talking about it when I'm ready is helpful.
You know, he's one that likes to talk about things in the moment, figure it out, dig deep, you know, maybe try to fix it. and we just had to have conversations of like that probably is not gonna work for me in those moments. Just be with me. and then we could talk about it later when I'm not in those moments, that that mood, that spiral in that s negative space. So, and for other people, kind of similarly, what they, you know, might be able to watch out for is those things. Like if someone is constantly self isolating, essentially, that might be a sign that they need might just need someone to be there and sit with them. And for everyone else that may have someone in their life that may be going through this, you don't have to fix them. You're and you're probably not going to.
The best thing you can do is be there with them, sit in it, allow them to have those conversations with you without you feeling like you have to fix it. And the other thing is a lot of people are afraid to have those conversations or even approach them because they have this feeling that if they talk about it, they're gonna put this idea in their head. I'm here to tell you the idea is already in our heads. It's already there. You're not gonna put the idea there. The best thing you can do is just open up that space for conversation if they're willing and want to, and just try not to be in a fix mode.
Natalie Bulger (22:36)
I think we're married to the same person, by the way, 'cause my husband's he's the same way. And I have to catch myself sometimes doing that. It's something it's been mentioned on past episodes of do you just need to talk? Do you just need companionship in that moment or are you looking to solution? And those are very different pathways we take with people you know we support and that we're around. So I I think calling attention to that really important and that mention I can't wait and just after this we'll get into the risk conversation because that is my like professional wheelhouse and I want to break that down with you because the way you said it was a hundred percent spot on. But before we get there, what leads to that need in this conversation about you know, what's risky, what's not, all those elements is this access component. And We've seen this. I I mean, first it's the stigma of even agreeing to ask for the help or seek the care or do those things. And then it's how long do I wait for my first appointment? And by the way, I wanna get a therapist or someone that gets me that understands I vibe with that can take two to three people sometimes before you have like a good match, which adds its own thing. Is it me? Is it them? Like it's a whole relation debacle. So You were able to get that inpatient, you know, you know, t intensive treatment, but was that even kind of a tough thing to navigate, especially knowing the system and still having difficulties?
Jeremy Carter (24:08)
You know, I thought so it took me two days to check myself in because I I was I was just worried about what the experience would be like. But I did it because I knew I needed the help. And Natalie, I was not prepared for how broken the system was. You know, you and I you know, work in social work, we we we just know anecdotally the system is broken and people fall through the cracks and it's not it's not great. Once you're on the other side and actually in the system, it's a whole new level that of you know, it was eye opening for me. Even from the very first day, the first hour that I went there in my intake. I was emotionally activated because it was two days after my attempt. This was new for me. I I was nervous about getting help and telling my story, I was getting kind of agitated, and the social worker doing my intake got offended and started crying and left the room with me there in the middle of telling my story, breaking down. Now I'm alone in this room that I'm trying to get help.
I further later learned that in that assessment she marked that I did not want peer support or service coordination, even though she never asked me about it. Natalie, that is one thing I would have absolutely said yes to if offered to me, but it never was. And in fact, in my record, said I declined it. and so I got through that. I started going to group therapy. Half of them people didn't even show up. There were some sessions I was the only one, or maybe one or two other people. the individual sessions didn't go well. My first diagnosis was wrong. When I tried to call attention to it and try to advocate for myself, saying, I don't have any of these signs. I I think this is wrong. I was told You shouldn't do that. And that's that was one moment where I was like, the system's not working for me. And if that's the case, then I need to advocate for myself. and I did, and I got a second opinion outside the system that I was in, which was when I learned that I had borderline personality, among other things. and so like I was not prepared for how broken that system was and it was real eye opening to me to think several times throughout this journey, if I have a social work background and n supposed to know this system pretty well, how does this work for other people that have no idea what the system is supposed to be like and don't even know that they're in a broken system?
And that was just gut wrenching for me because I looked around the room seeing other people struggling in this system and thinking, This is not how this is supposed to be. This is not how the system's supposed to work. This is not how support is supposed to work. And I just saw people left and right like just struggling in the system. And I thought, there has to be something else. There has be something else outside of this clinical system that's not crisis intervention, that's not therapy, but still provides this camaraderie support among people going through the same thing.
Natalie Bulger (28:19)
Well, and I think one of the things to rem to reinforce of what you just said is a misconception is that when we are in a mental health crisis, our intelligence doesn't change, right? So it mental health affects every IQ level, every education level, all of those things, as does suicidal ideation. We see it, I mean, you just look, look to the news and you see that, you know, those CEOs, the the folks that do that. And so to be told don't don't advocate for yourself, don't do that thing. Almost like saying you're not smart enough right now, or you are, you know, no longer able to do that. And that's one of the biggest myths to bust is that there are people who can be in the grips of a mental health crisis, still connected to their knowledge, to their awareness, to themselves, and to tell someone, nope, nope, just sit back and let us do all of this for you. It's not not the pathway. And I think the sad part for me is this Is 20 years. So I disclosed to you at one point, I'll disclose to the listeners. When I had that moment in college where I just said, I don't want to wake up tomorrow, and I was counting my Lexapro pills, and my roommate in college walked in and went, Holy shit, called the cops, had me taken out. I was drunk on top of it. So that didn't help. You know, 18, drunk, counting my Lexapro. Honestly, because I couldn't remember if I took it or not. But I was so sad that I was making all the statements and probably borderline having ideation myself and to stay in school they said well you have to voluntarily commit yourself for the weekend and I was like okay so I signed over I go into the the inpatient psychiatric unit my first night my roommate attempts to throw the lab tech out the window during a lab draw because they're pulling it at two in the morning which doesn't make a lot of sense so I mean even the processes that are involved they remove her I get another roommate who is you know anorexia bulimia who then spends the next two days attempting to trade her food For other things in the unit. I'm watching this happen. I'm got a 10 year old in my Alcoholic Anonymous group session. I don't know why he's in there. I'm like, is like, what's happening? You know, and so you see all of these things. And it was actually one of the reasons I went into social work was having spent 48 to 72 hours in that space and going, this is like no one in this room got help. No one over this weekend. And when I left, I was put into a women's Support group at the university. Granted, they were not all in the same bucket as me, but it was a space where no one, the one rule we all followed is we never judged each other. You just kind of said your thing, no one may understand you. And for that year, I'll give it credit, it got me through it. And that was more than I could have asked for. And it was a peer-led group that the university gave space for, ensured we had rooms to go to, ensured we had confidentiality protection. And without that, I know I wouldn't have gone to therapy. I know I wouldn't have sought any other help. And I probably would have ended up in this revolving door conversation. So help us understand what is actually peer-led support? What does it look like? Like who are the people that are situated to lead those types of groups or engagements? And then we're really gonna knock down all of these barriers about risk because I would love to just get people to think about it very differently. So tell us about peer-led support and how it works, especially with still here.
Jeremy Carter (31:55)
Yeah, so it's you know, really a pretty basic concept. i the concept is really providing space and support for people with similar things going on, but the the main differential factor here from other support groups is that it is led by by a peer, and a peer meaning someone who in this case has suicidal thoughts or attempts, in that case me so I'm one of the main facilitator. And I think that is what makes peer support really different, is that it's not led by clinicians. Clinicians are not in the room, they're not monitoring you for that risk and liability. and it is just peers it's almost like AA, right? Like in in that type of setting and model.
Although we're like a twelve step or anything. It's just like surrounded by peers. Peers lead the meeting. and that's really, you know, so the c the structure of it is we all go around the circle sharing what's been going on, what are we struggling with, but also what's been helping us get through. because An important part of the peer support group is really learning from others about how to get through these times, not just, you know, hearing from other people about their struggles, but c communal learning about skills, about what gets people through those dark times. and my co facilitator is a clinician by background and training, but also as a peer, with suicidal thoughts and attempts. and then I also have a clinical advisor who I can go to if there are things that come up in group or I need to process through some things. you know, because being peer only and peer-led is really great, but sometimes you need some clinical advice when things come up and so I always have that option. so that's kind of the structure of it.
Natalie Bulger (34:23)
Yeah. Now, you've mentioned a couple of times, you know, a space for people to go without fear of being reported. And this looks different in different states, right? So in Pennsylvania, it's a 302 where you call, you're calling the crisis line, you're calling someone, even the police in some instances, and saying someone's gonna, you know, potentially harm themselves imminently or harm someone else. And there's a whole legal process that that goes through. When you are initiating these support sessions, I'm sure and this is the first step of risk, right? Someone could come in And say, I'm heading out and I'll never see you again. And so what is the communication with the attendees on what triggers that process versus what doesn't? Because as you said, you don't want people to restrict themselves, but you also do, from a moral ethical standpoint, potentially have to take a step if there is a concern of life. So how what's that? Because that's the messy murky part. And I'd love to hear how you've been navigating that.
Jeremy Carter (35:17)
Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of the murky part of this whole work. and so we're really clear about kind of what the group is and isn't, right? So we're clear in the in every beginning of the meetings that this is not therapy, this is not crisis intervention. this is kind of a bridge support for for you to share and get get some mutual support. so we're very clear about kind of the boundaries of the group and even though we really want to have this be a space where you can freely share what's been going on, we also are careful to say this also is not the place for really graphic details. because we have to have some boundaries. We can't just have you know anything goes, because that would not be healthy for everyone in the group.
So we will say, you know, we will pull people aside if they disclose something that might be concerning or urgent. you know, we'll just pull them aside and talk to them. And we make it really clear that like reporting in three two is the absolute last step possible. we will never want to do that, but we will if we if someone is in danger to themselves. Like we're not going to turn a blind eye just because this is an open space. Like we're still going to be responsible and make those referrals if needed. we haven't had to in those six meetings that we've we've operated. but we make those boundaries really clear so that people feel safe going into the meetings, knowing what this is and isn't.
Natalie Bulger (37:16)
And I think that's a it's a great example of some of that risk mitigation. So when we look back and when you were trying to work with partners to do this and they said the risk is too high, the risk is too high, and how you prefaced it of the risk of not saving someone is higher. And it's a framework that I n in professional risk life, we don't see people flip enough, especially in corporations or in places that I hate to say just have a set of bylaws or they have a board.
Because they instantly are thinking of the legalities of the world, right? So I came there, I should have been reported, I wasn't. Now the family sues. And, you know, now you're like, okay, do I have insurance? Do I not? But the component that I think I want to make sure to remind folks listening, and I think you would double down on it, is ignorance is not bliss in this scenario. The fact that you put your blinders on and you say, but I don't see anyone that's having this problem. So I'm not liable is a message that I wish we could throw out the door, right? If you have the resources and the capability to support something that is scientifically evidence-based proven, peer-led support is because there's peer-led training. There's it's not like you just pick someone off the street and go, Have you done this? Now lead this group, you know. That if you if you set that up, that your positive impact, it doesn't ever eliminate the risk of a bad thing happening. We can't unless we just don't have that entire scenario anymore.
But what it does is it shifts into embracing the opportunity that is there, which is ensuring that someone sees tomorrow because they've had an opportunity to engage. And so I hope that if there's anyone here listening that has a connection with a foundation, is involved in a nonprofit, is tagged in with any funding streams, that you start pivoting those conversations to it's too risky for us to do it, versus what is the moral ethical liability that sits with us if we ignore that the problem exists in the first place. And that I think would shift some of our our culture just ever so slightly, even if it's dollars, right? Dollars that can go to something. but as you've engaged in this process, are you feeling and I know it's early, it's six months, seven months of this, are you seeing some of those conversations with those groups that maybe you've tagged before going, May maybe we do engage at some point or give us another six months of data. Or here's when a proof of concept would be willing. And do you even want to do that now?
Jeremy Carter (40:02)
Yeah, so I've been I've stayed engaged with Nami throughout this process and I've started to see them come come around to supporting the group a little bit more. they still want me to go through like one of their trainings, you know, which is fine. Like I I'll go through these trainings. anything to keep learning. you know, and go through some steps to kind of be sponsored or sanctioned by by their kind of task force. so that's a change from, you know, six, seven months ago where it didn't even seem like that was gonna be a conversation. I've also had some conversations with funders, just preliminary conversations about kind of, you know, this is what I'm trying to do. What does this look like as a potential fundable project, and getting some good feedback and support around kind of, you know, collecting data and things like that, which are interesting conversations because how do you collect data in a kind of anonymous type of group? you know, there's some ways to do it voluntarily, but starting to have some more and more conversations with groups that maybe historically were not going to engage in these types of conversations, but now that they see that, you know, I have some runtime. I've had, you know, seven meetings under my belt. you know, and we have a decent stream of people. So we have a good mix of people returning to the meetings and new people each month, which is a great thing to see.
So just having more conversations with them about that is helpful for them to get outside of their usual way of thinking. and think and seeing that this is working, seeing that people are coming back, seeing that people are saying that they've been looking for this, is helpful for those people to those organizations to start thinking about this in maybe a different way.
Natalie Bulger (42:24)
Well, and I think too, and this is pipe dream, right? And and you you've come from a payer background in the in the healthcare space, but the amount of money that could be saved by investing in things upfront and not even charging people's insurance, but insurance saying we'll contribute to this because we know we have members that will benefit. And by the way, now we're not paying for an inpatient stay because they've received what they needed before maybe getting to a crisis point, like shifting some of That very rigid clinical mindset that's been set over time could also be opportunities. So even wellness groups, huge companies that you know have you know, employees that are at high risk. We talk police, we talk first responders, healthcare workers, all of those things that are in situations that we tend to see higher rates of suicidal ADH and things like that. Like there are places, and what I what I hope that you know about Steel here is the element of disruption and positive disruption that an idea like this, you know, when grasped fully, can bring to such bigger, larger kind of industry. So on that note, I want to know if so folks are listening to this and going, well, I live in in Kansas. I don't know what the heck we have here. You know, what are some of the questions they can ask? Maybe what are some of the resources? Because this has been very grassroots for you as someone who's lived it. But it doesn't mean there's we don't have other people That might hear about this and want to do something similar, how can they explore or how can they take the first step to engaging in something similar in their community?
Jeremy Carter (44:03)
Yeah, you know, I think even though the process was a little daunting for me and discouraging, I think you do need to start with reaching out to what's out there already, right? See what's out there because there might be partners that could help you do this, instead of just doing it alone. so I would say step one is really looking look at the landscape of what's already in your community. Are there general mental health support groups? Could those organizations that do those support groups maybe partner with you to do a suicide support group, something like that? because I will say from experience, just doing this from your own, from the ground up is you know a little bit scary because you don't know what you're doing totally. but if you have a support if a group or organization that already does something similar and would be willing to do something with you, that's always, you know, gonna be a benefit because they have the infrastructure, you know, already to do it. But if there's not, you know, I literally said, okay. I'll do a QPR training, which is question, persuade, and refer. I'll I'll do a lot of research about what the evidence says about how these groups should be structured. So I did lot of research about that. And then I just put up a website, I wrote an article, and asked people to come, you know, and and just went kind of went from there. I stayed in communication with groups like Nami to see, you know, to to keep learning, and to see if there's cross referrals and things like that. but if there's really nothing that exists in your community, look at me and know that like there's nothing stopping you from just creating it. And, you know, with something like this, once you get the word out, it is kind of one of those things of if you build it, they will come.
And I partnered with, you know, I did a lot of r outreach to a lot of therapists in the area, a lot of therapy groups and practices to say, Hey, I started this new thing. It could be a support for your clients. If this is not therapy, this is not a replacement. and just did a lot of outreach as much as I could because I knew if you get the word out there It will connect, people will share, people will, you know, and to me it was all about if it even helps one person stay, all of this is worth it. so it that's my encouraging words to you to to just do it if there's nothing that exists, because chances are you're not the only one that's going through that. And I have found that this is helping me as much as it helps other people.
Natalie Bulger (47:13)
Well, and the ripple effect of that one person staying too. And I think we've always, you know, acknowledg it's not when those losses happen, they you know, there there's a lot that kind of subsequently trickles out from that. And so you're still in that ripple when the person is here and seeking that help too. So being able to be that advocate and that ally, and we talk a lot about what allyship means in these areas, you don't have to understand it. You don't have to be able to share a similar story back and forth outside of that peer group setting, but if you're talking to someone is is to be able to keep a lookout for those things. I mean I stumbled on you and reached out off of a PostGazette article, I think, you know, and then found, you know, another one that you had written. And, you know, that was enough to pique curiosity and go, maybe I, you know, I'm gonna keep this in mind in case I know someone that would need something similar to this. And so that ability, especially when we're still trying to remove the stigma, I think to have that knowledge.
Just within ourselves to share with everyone is so powerful. So I want to I want to kind of wrap up as we get into where to find information about you and the organization on the stigma piece. So you are openly sharing about this, and you've said it a couple times in your written pieces. It's the scariest thing you've done, right? Is to talk about this and put it out there. Have you like what is the response been from general community? Because we know people might say like get out of here like I don't I don't want to hear about it like don't bring that near me or vice versa the thank you so much I needed to know I wasn't alone. What that personal reflective journey of the last kind of eight months as you've started to promote this and talk about it, what has that been like?
Jeremy Carter (49:02)
Well, I have to say yes, it is the scariest thing I've done to just broadcast your mental health to everyone out there. you know, and I have to say just really quickly, writing those articles, my first one, I went back and forth, back and forth of like, I don't wanna do this. Okay, I'll do it. I don't wanna do this, I'll do it with the editor, who was very gracious and understanding. but came the realization again of like Okay, I'll put it all out there. And I'm scared of what other people might think about me now. but again, if this helps one person, then to me it's worth it to put it all out there. and I'll say, Natalie, the response has been nothing but positive.
I have had so many people reach out to me, people I know and people I don't know. Many, many, many, many people reaching out saying thank you. Thank you for sharing the story. Thank you for highlighting the issue. and so many people sharing their connection with suicide, that they've had past attempts or thoughts, that they have ongoing thoughts, that they've lost someone a lot of people reaching out to me that they've lost someone and thanking me for providing this. and that's been something I didn't really expect to happen is how many people had connections to this. You know, even people that I know have known for a while that after I came out with this have come to me and said, you know, I lost my my mom, my dad, my brother, sister, you know, my child that have come up to me and and shared that and it has been really humbling to be honest, to to have people come and share that with me, and realize that a lot of us are a couple of degrees separation from this issue of suicide in some way or another. so I don't know if I fully answered that question.
Natalie Bulger (51:27)
No, you did because I think and and you said exactly what I think so many of us think is I don't know what people will think about me. And I think the point is you're not causing harm. It the only thing you can do is cause benefit to sharing this. And so that trade-off of if people don't like me, it's not harmful to anyone. It's really not. And you know, if one person gets that moment of I don't want a lady hitting her brakes and screaming at me on the bridge. So I'm gonna go talk to someone real quick. Then then that is that kind of turnaround piece. So Jeremy Where can people find information about still here? And I I know on my Pittsburgh accents coming out, it's S-T-I-L-L, not still, which is how I say still all the time, but still here. and just in regards to again, you mentioned NAMI, but where are those resources that they can connect, find more out about what you're doing, or in general, support systems.
Jeremy Carter (52:31)
Yeah, you can find out more about kind of our philosophy of the group and where to find our meetings at stillherepgh dot org. Still here pgh dot org. that's where people can find out more. They can sign up for meeting reminders or to donate and support the group.
Natalie Bulger (52:52)
Awesome. And we'll be releasing this about mid summer, but anything else coming up for the organization or just this, you know, are there things you're looking forward to about spreading this further? Anything like that we should share.
Jeremy Carter (53:06)
Yeah, so we are kind of evolving, which I'm excited about. We started doing social events because, you know, a big part of people struggling with suicidal thoughts is isolation. And so we actually had people in the group suggest doing socialization events, which is awesome when people are like suggesting things that I didn't think about doing. and so we had our first social event a couple of weeks ago where we had 10 people come out and just played games, socialized, had food, music. and so we'll be doing more of those socializing events because that's really important for people to get out and just make connections outside of the support groups. we'll also have collaborated with a local kind of rock band that really reached out to us and really resonated with our mission. and we're planning a music festival early next year. which will support the group and just kind of raise more awareness about suicide prevention and awareness. So looking forward to collaborating with them for some kind of music festival.
Natalie Bulger (54:16)
Awesome. And talk about a healing thing. Actually, an episode that will have come out before ours is with a musician who's been through his own journey with some of this and how healing the the actual scientific components of music can be for a body and like balancing things in our system. So love that and I think again just goes to show if we talk about it, it starts to pull that darkness away from the conversation. And it's never it's not gonna eliminate it. We're humans still gonna end up in situations we don't understand, but to stay quiet, to stay alone, as you've said, to isolate is is not generally the answer. So here's step one of that for some people probably just listening today and hearing your story, Jeremy and and hearing what you've done. And so I want to agree just with everyone else that's provided feedback. Thank you for challenging the scary moment of do I share this and stepping into a world that looks too risky for so many, but honestly has one of the probably highest payoffs we can have, which is continuing to have life and continuing to explore and grow forward every day. So Jeremy, any final thoughts before we wrap up today?
Jeremy Carter (55:33)
Well, thank you, Natalie, for again for hosting the conversation, and and just providing space to talk about this. and for anyone who may have someone struggling with this in their life, just remember, you know, most of us can handle awkward conversations that don't go well, but a lot of us can't handle just being alone. and for people who are struggling, just know support is out there, reach out to friends and family, to people you know, and just genuinely try to believe that this world is a better place with you still here.
Natalie Bulger (56:15)
Agree. Well, thank you, Jeremy. Thank you, everyone, for listening. All of the references we've chatted about today will be in the show notes. And share this with someone that you may think could benefit from it. Again, the whole point, talk about it, share the word, and join us again for another conversation soon here on Motivation N'at Thank you.