Natalie Bulger  0:02

At 26, Trajan Jones is running for a Pennsylvania house seat. Why now? Why here? He answers all of that and more coming up on this episode of Motivation N'at.

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Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Motivation N'at. I am Natalie, I am your host, and I'm excited today to bring to you another local conversation. Folks from Indiana County, you're probably going to want to tune in on this one. We're just getting off of another conversation with a local business owner. The trend of won't you be my neighbor in the little air of Mr. Rogers continues today. I do have one quick disclaimer before I introduce the guest — this is a podcast. I am not a licensed broadcast station. I can interview who I want to interview, and I am not held to any FCC equal time rule when it comes to anything with politics. I say that because today's guest is Trajan Jones and he is running in our local area here in the Indiana County component. Trajan, you're going to talk about your district area and what you're focusing on here in just a second, in the upcoming local and state elections here in Pennsylvania. Today's conversation — while we are going to talk about our community — we are also going to talk about the importance of community, the importance of voting locally, all of those pieces about having your voice heard. I'm really excited to have someone kind of in the trenches with it right now, bringing that conversation here. Without further ado, Trajan, I want to give you a chance to introduce yourself. I know your mom, but I actually have never met her. It's just through the fun six degrees of separation that we all have. So when the announcement came out, I was like, oh, I got to call Brandy. I got to see if Trajan's interested to come on. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you? How are you involved in this whole conversation? What got you started?

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Trajan Jones  2:03

Thank you for the opportunity to come on here and to talk a little bit about myself and about the things that I care about. My name is Trajan Jones. I am a local resident of Indiana County, have been essentially my entire life. My family's from here, with deep roots. Through being from here, seeing how the community has grown, just really being here, living it, loving it — that led me into the work that I do now. I stayed, went to school at IUP, majored in geography and regional planning. Following graduation, I stayed local. I work for Indiana Borough as the planning director. Going back to that idea of being in the community and loving my community — I see it as a way to give back in terms of my current work, being in public service and working for local government. It's something that I'm passionate about. And the more that I've gotten out and talked to people, I've found that they kind of are too. They just sometimes don't know where to plug in, how to get involved. Through my work and through this campaign, that's a goal of mine — to reach more people and bring them into our civic sphere and get them involved.

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Natalie Bulger  3:14

We are in a very unique area here. Can you talk a little bit about what the district you're running in covers? Because it's not even the whole county, right? It's a portion of the county.

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Trajan Jones  3:24

Right. The way I've described it to people is it's essentially the southern portion of Indiana County. The southern border is the Conemaugh River — so Blairsville, from essentially there up to about Indiana, White Township. The northern border is a little bit jagged. It does swing up to include some of our northern municipalities like Aultman, like Climber. Between those two and then from east to west, it's exactly what you'd expect in terms of the way the county is shaped.

 

Natalie Bulger  3:54

The first thing I hope listeners are thinking about is that's a small area. These are towns that are 15, 20 minutes kind of around from where I'm sitting right now, which is kind of the county hub of Indiana Borough in Indiana County. This just goes to show — the role you're running for is a state representative role. It is someone who is going to represent those individuals, which is a much smaller version and component than maybe we might think about even in our US Congress representatives, certainly our state where we only have two in the Senate, and then of course the presidency. We always think about elections in these big kind of groups where you're one of millions of voters. And this, like so many we've heard recently, is something that comes down to — it is actually the count. Every voice counts in some of these elections.

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Trajan Jones  4:48

That's something that I like about it, that led me into being willing to consider this undertaking — the idea that it is small. When I think about government, when I think about politics, I like to think locally. Anything bigger than that, I really wouldn't be interested in, because I think to be a representative, to reflect the community that you are representing, you have to be able to engage. And when you get to that large scale, that becomes much tougher than it is when we're looking at the local level and just this small portion of the county.

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Natalie Bulger  5:28

You have an interesting portion of the county because this portion includes a university — Indiana University of Pennsylvania. It includes a major hospital in the area, Indiana Regional Medical Center. And it includes everything from farms to Mennonite communities to small towns and literal villages you drive through where there's a sign that says "the village of." You have a huge population that are students — they come in, they leave, they come in, they leave. And then you have kind of the stable voices that are here. We have often seen a division of kind of the mindset of higher education and the direction that they vote, versus some of the more rural communities and the direction that they vote. So you're looking at bridging a very diverse population. Who are some of the voices that you're going to have to listen to, or that you already have talked to, because they have different goals and desires?

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Trajan Jones  6:31

Anytime you have a transient population like a university, it comes with its pros and its cons. It's a pro in terms of being an anchor institution for our community. A lot of communities in Western PA have seen divestment over the last 30, 40, 50, even 60-plus years. But here in the county, we've been able to kind of maintain or sustain where we're at based on having anchor institutions like that. In terms of what voices we need to hear — it's easy to say everyone's voices, which is true, but when you're really thinking about meaningful engagement, you've got to be able to narrow it down a little bit. Who's representing those groups on a smaller level? My approach has always been to work through community-based organizations. They serve as kind of the touch point for the average individual to get involved. Whether it's an issue-based group or geographically based, it's going to have a better representation of a broad base of people. I'm not naive — I can't get out and talk to literally every single person here. But by working with a large and broad variety of community-based organizations, I believe I can still reach individuals' voices through that process.

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Natalie Bulger  8:00

To name some examples — you've got the Elks, the VFWs, big strong veterans groups, business groups. The Women in Business in Indiana County has a group. There are nonprofit communities that kind of come together to support each other. There's a lot of those culture-based areas out there. And if you're ever wondering what's the first step to elevating a question or concern — we often get frustrated because we scream into the void, put it on social media and it's just us. There's probably a group out there already looking at that. Finding individuals that have a little bit of infrastructure to help support your voice doesn't mean you have to be in there every single day. But it helps kind of continue that message and helps you feel heard.

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Trajan Jones  8:52

It provides that opportunity for collective action — and that's where strength in terms of politics, in terms of government, that's where it lies. A good example I always use to explain it to people: if your street needs a stop sign, you can go into whatever the government office is time after time after time — they may not hear you. But now if your whole street's coming in saying we need this stop sign, that becomes much harder to ignore. Providing those opportunities for collective action and collective agency — it's a much better approach to thinking about how we can create change and create strong communities.

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Natalie Bulger  9:33

Let's get into your current role a little bit. You haven't really left. You were here, you were at the university, an athlete, grew up in the community. And then you moved into this thing that I don't even understand. What is urban planning? When I think of the planning people in the county or in the borough, I picture the zoning person coming to yell at me that my grass is too long. But there's more to that. There's businesses, infrastructure, taxes — it's all intertwined. Break it down for us. What does your role look like? What's the intention of it?

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Trajan Jones  10:15

Planners get this question all the time — people don't necessarily understand what we do, which I think a lot of times devalues our role. We're the people thinking about the community, the town, long term. One of the first things we did when I came on as planning director was launch our comprehensive plan — about a 120-page document that lays out what the vision for the community is. Through that process, engagement was the key, because we didn't want to come in with a top-down approach of us sitting in offices saying this is what Indiana needs to be. It was definitely grassroots, community-driven. That's really the overall sense of what planning is. It covers all these different areas — we can't be single-minded. We've got to think about business, environment, people's daily lives versus the long term when we're thinking about trade-offs. It's a lot of things that come together in terms of the decisions we're making and the directions we're going. What drew me to it was that no day is ever going to be exactly the same, and you get to work within the community. It's not me making these decisions — it's that collective decision-making idea.

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Natalie Bulger  11:48

I'll throw a question at you that you probably hadn't prepped for — what's the most unique thing in this role that you've been asked to explore or look into? That out-of-the-blue idea that maybe was interesting, maybe something fun to explore.

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Trajan Jones  12:10

Sometimes it's tough to get people to think to that level of extremes, because when we're doing engagement, they're already coming in with constraints — thinking their government isn't going to be able to afford to do anything crazy. Through the process, we'd say, be a visionary. Don't think about any constraints. If it was a perfect world, what would we have? Despite hoping for crazy, extravagant plans or ideas, a lot of people are really based in reality. Throughout the process, I think we had probably five or six different people say they'd love to see a Target in Indiana. We also had a program with what's called Vinegar Hill here — people from the area will be familiar with it. Jimmy Stewart's house sits on top of it, but the maintenance was becoming an issue. We couldn't send people out there, so we had goats come through. A lot of people would go up and just watch the goats up there and eat — it became kind of an attraction for the borough. That was an idea to continue into the future. There's a quote within planning: "Make no small plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood." I'm paraphrasing, but the idea is to think beyond whatever you perceive to be the constraints of local government.

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Natalie Bulger  13:41

That ties really well into this whole idea that local government is constrained by state government, which is constrained by federal government. The federal government sets the floor — you can't be less restrictive than we say. Then the state comes in and says, but we can be more restrictive. Then local comes in and says, but we can be more restrictive. It just kind of compounds. That probably takes away a sense of curiosity because you think, well, there's a federal law and even if we got the state law to change, the fed law isn't going to change. That effort to make change starts at the smallest kind of snowball so that it can go forward. The community you would represent is the lower half of the county. You're going to have to work with partners in the upper half to tell a larger story. Even though focus is here — what are some of the larger pieces that translate over? A concern we have right here in this district that also shows up in our sister rural areas, and all the way — it's not immune from Pittsburgh, an hour and a half down the road. What's rising to the top of those concerns that you'd be looking to navigate?

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Trajan Jones  15:18

A big one, specifically here in Indiana County but also in the broader region of Western PA, is rural healthcare. Having access to it and having it be affordable. From the planning perspective, the way I've experienced it up to now is — do we have the ability for people to maintain their health or a healthy lifestyle prior to becoming sick? From the planning perspective, that looks like making small improvements that compound over time. Here in the borough, we pride ourselves on being a walkable community. That's our focus in terms of looking at infrastructure that continues to encourage and provide opportunity for people to get out and walk. Over time, if people have those opportunities and they're doing the walking, hopefully that leads to better health outcomes generally. Another issue in regard to healthcare is access to healthy foods. We have a lot of agriculture here, a local farmers market every Saturday over the summer. Providing opportunities and resources for organizations to continue to provide access to healthy produce, preferably locally. Another thing that works into that conversation is actually getting grocery stores back into communities. We have several food deserts in Indiana County where the only option for groceries is going to be a Dollar General. We've seen them proliferate to a point where that becomes people's expectations. I certainly believe we deserve better than that. But it stems from people's lived experience. We can go to Harrisburg and try to legislate, try to meet their goals and needs — but if we're not allowing them an opportunity in the decision-making to ensure that what we're doing is actually going to meet their needs, that's where the disconnect occurs. People become frustrated and feel like government isn't representing them or isn't reflective of what they need.

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Natalie Bulger  17:54

Rural health is near and dear to my heart — healthcare is my background. I've had this conversation with a variety of representatives over time. We have votech schools and they've branched more lately into training med techs, training CRNAs before they even leave school. So at 18, they walk into being able to go work in a hospital that's fully supportive of them at a living wage. We know we're approaching a healthcare cliff. If we can have students walk out of high school two years away from being able to get a nursing degree or a tech degree, it's almost catching up our education to those massive gaps that we have. And even as you mentioned, a walkable community — my husband walks to one of his providers. But the doctor's offices may be coming out of the hospital back into smaller settings. There are so many Department of Health regulations they have to meet to do that. That's where those state rep offices come into play — because they're able to help constituents who have these ideas. And I don't think people do it enough. That's who you call.

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Trajan Jones  19:07

Exactly.

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Natalie Bulger  19:11

What is your anticipation of the role of that representative in that? So someone calls up and says, hey, I'd love to move my physician practice into town. There's a building available. It was never used for a doctor's office before. How does that representative help them navigate what they need?

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Trajan Jones  19:32

In the role as representative, it comes down to making connections. I'm not going to be the person who actually gives them approval to do what they need in terms of getting into that building — but I'll know the people who are able to do that. Making that connection, ensuring that it's moving forward, that both sides are responsive — that's the role of a representative. To make those connections between community members. How can I connect them with the local government? And more importantly, probably each other. A lot of these issues are going to overlap. There's going to be a dichotomy in terms of my role as a representative. A portion would be in Harrisburg focusing on legislation. But what led me to desire this position is the work I can do here — making connections and providing opportunities for people to collectively address problems.

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Natalie Bulger  20:39

As someone who is born and raised in the area — and though representatives do have to live in the area they represent — the question is, what does that network look like? You're younger than a lot of people running. We're seeing this as a trend across the board. You've got Maxwell Frost down in Florida at the national level, the Carnegie Mayor in Pittsburgh who's like 22, also an IUP grad.

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Trajan Jones  21:04

Yeah, I went to school with him. Sam.

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Natalie Bulger  21:08

What's the bonus of being someone young exploring this direction? What's the pitch? Why should we trust someone younger than us in many cases to represent us in a state legislature body?

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Trajan Jones  21:23

I think people think of age, they think of lack of experience, which may be true. But I think that lack of experience also keeps us from being in a box — from thinking that things have to be done a certain way or being beholden to legacy. Younger people trying to get into these roles, getting involved, taking on leadership positions, naturally opens a door for more progressive — or you may call it radical, whatever you want to call it — decision-making. Not being boxed in by this is the way we've always done stuff. Younger people, we naturally come in and say, we've seen it, but maybe it's time for something new. And another point I've made to a lot of people, especially in terms of doing something like this and trying to get involved at this age — everything that's happening now, we're going to inherit over the next 10, 20, 30 years going into my full adult life. I'm 26 right now. Being able to get involved early and often allows me to have more of an influence and a say in terms of the direction we're going, at least locally. And that allows me, in those years, to look back and not feel like something was outside of my control. If I'm unhappy with the situation, I can't blame it on anybody else. I was there, I was involved. I did everything I could to try to make this community a place where people are safe, they're happy, they're thriving. Getting involved early and often has been a big driver of young people's approach to getting involved with politics.

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Natalie Bulger  23:02

I'll throw one out there — we're going to think hypothetically. Trajan's best outcome here is you get elected, you head off to Harrisburg, part-time here, and it's 10, 12 years down the road. I believe in term limits — I'll be honest about that. How do you mentor that younger group coming up, or any messages to anyone who has been in those roles for 15, 20, in some cases 40 years, to say pass the torch — here's how we make someone trusted, that they'll still be creative, but they have to represent what's actually happening.

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Trajan Jones  23:43

In terms of term limits and passing the torch — that works exactly to what I was talking about in terms of getting trapped inside a legacy. If we have a consistent rollover of political representatives or public figures, that naturally stops them from getting entrenched or thinking we've always done this one way. We're continually bringing in new voices, new opinions, new ideas. I think that's only going to be a benefit. At the same time, there are pros to people spending long terms in government positions. Institutional knowledge is extremely beneficial in terms of getting things done and providing a path or a foundation for future people coming in. But it comes down to the trade-off — is there a set amount of time where that no longer becomes a pro and it starts to become just a con? In terms of encouraging more young people or the next generation to get involved, the best advice I've gotten — something that's really put me in the position I am now — is the idea of just showing up. For young people, it's easy to get frustrated, because a lot of times we feel like we don't have a voice. But the only way to have a voice is to show up. What that looks like, you can narrow it down to your personality, to who you are. Maybe it is going to a public meeting and speaking during a public comment period. Maybe it's running for office. Maybe it's as simple as just volunteering at your local library. There are different paths, but overall just showing up and continually showing up, creating a consistent track record of involvement — that's how we get people re-engaged and reinvigorated in terms of being involved in making change.

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Natalie Bulger  25:34

You touched on something and it's a fine balance — the institutional knowledge and the ability to get things done. Having come from federal employment, I know how much red tape exists. I know how long it takes things to get done. And some of that's for a reason — you have massive programs like Medicaid. You can't just make a single change and expect it to go into place overnight because of how many people are impacted. But we probably have a lot of things that have not been looked at for 40, 50 years that haven't been rolled back or undone. We just add more to it. So what are some of the things that are long overdue for a revisit? The easiest one for me is what the House just voted on in Pennsylvania — the minimum wage — but it gets stuck at the Senate for years. Talk a little bit about that because that's major, but there are other things beyond that too that are just kind of stagnant. It's like the 1990s nostalgia won't leave us, but we want that one to go away.

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Trajan Jones  26:40

One that's near and dear to my heart — one that I focus on and have experience with — is thinking about how we're using land in terms of residential uses. In Indiana, and a lot of communities, the pattern of development was single-family housing. The issue we're starting to run into in terms of affordability and availability of housing is that single-family housing takes up a lot of space. Taking up more space means it's less dense, fewer opportunities. That's something that's permitted and legislated at the state and local level. Something legislation is currently looking into is taking that away — so you wouldn't be able to zone now for just single-family housing. Within any residential area, you'd be able to have duplexes, triplexes, multi-unit families. What that does is create more opportunity in terms of the availability of housing — which, at the broad level of supply and demand, you'd expect that to make housing more affordable. It also comes down to opportunity at this local level. We have a great transient population of students that come to IUP, but we're not keeping them here. One of the issues in that regard is housing. Soon as you graduate, you don't want a single-family house, but that's primarily what we're offering them. Providing the legislative basis to make it easier and lower the barriers for the development of duplexes, triplexes, any sort of multifamily housing — hopefully we can then retain more people. We start building those options. People see them. This is already a great community to live in, it's affordable. That will help us retain our students. Housing is one of the things that has gotten caught up and is not necessarily reflecting where we're at now, not even just locally, but nationwide.

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Natalie Bulger  28:55

It makes me think back on the fact that we talked to Dr. Mico Rose not too long ago about starting the new osteopathic college at IUP. Residents coming through, med students coming through — as much as we would love them to stay, if they're forced to buy a house for the two years they're here, or forced to live in student housing that a sophomore finds quite fine but maybe not someone in their eighth year of school trying to get things done — those are things I've never thought about. Why don't we have a really nice apartment building available for those types of situations? Those are the beautiful conversations that push even the constituents outside of their own area. We get so tunnel-visioned. I'm over here annoyed by all the charity paperwork I had to help a nonprofit work through because it just kept bouncing back and forth. How can it not be easier? And not even thinking about that bigger picture. So those conversations that involve the trade-offs of, hey, I'll prioritize this but I get what you're saying — those need to elevate to the top.

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Trajan Jones  30:03

It also comes back to what we were talking about before in terms of bringing in younger people and not thinking about things the way we've always done them. Back in the 80s and 90s, the American dream was single-family housing — big lawn, all that. Younger people these days, that may not be the same case. Providing opportunities for younger people to come in and draw awareness or highlight these issues — that just speaks to that point. It's a good example of it.

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Natalie Bulger  30:30

And getting the trust of the community that may not be open to that idea. People might be jumping to judgments. So what does it mean for the community? What does it mean for our taxes? If we have more people here, are we paying more or less? Because everyone's not making up for everything else. So what are some of the other components of your platform? You've mentioned rural health and housing. What else is really a hot spot for you as you look forward?

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Trajan Jones  31:11

Something I want to stand on in terms of policy is highlighting and improving the connections in terms of our natural resources. I think in going into the future, that's going to be the backbone. People are starting to become aware of the interest in getting out and doing outdoor activities. We're thinking about our trails, our parks. We have these great gems that are not necessarily interconnected. Finding some sort of way to create those connections not only improves our natural environment, but it's also a way to provide jobs — sustainable jobs. While it is sustainable in the environmental aspect, I'm thinking more long term. We're improving these things, we're creating jobs that we know aren't going to go away. The parks aren't going anywhere. That's an asset in our community that we don't have to worry about picking up and leaving in 10, 15 years. Providing more investments into that area and our natural resources also opens us up to opportunities in terms of tourism. We have the Tourist Bureau here for the county that does great work in terms of advertising and pushing out who we are as Indiana. To complement the work they're doing, we also need to internally find ways to push the state to make more investments into the resources here.

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Natalie Bulger  32:49

Tourism is a great thing to bring up because for a long time, Jimmy Stewart — as you mentioned with Vinegar Hill — was a tourist draw. We have a Jimmy Stewart museum, the Jimmy Stewart airport. People who love It's a Wonderful Life and every other movie come to see where he was born. But we've seen a shift where tourism isn't always about the popular town or how many restaurants you can go to. I got married in Hocking Hills, Ohio, which literally has one little park system that is overrun — and they have all these little tiny houses you can stay at. One restaurant in the whole area. So it's not even about where's your Target, where's your Kroger. It's that draw piece. And we have a very unique place where within driving distance from here is Blue Knob, Buttermilk Falls where Mr. Rogers' Mr. McFeely's family had connections, Yellow Creek, the Hoodlebug Trail, the Ghost Town Trail — all of these things that adventurous people might find a lot of interest in. You can kayak through some of those areas. The draw here doesn't necessarily have to be some big new industry data hub or fulfillment warehouse.

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Trajan Jones  34:02

Exactly. Coming back to that idea of public officials getting trapped in a box — a lot of times when we're thinking about strengthening a community, they get stuck on the idea of economy and thinking about business primarily, and that that'll drive everything else. But a lot of the places that people love and are drawn to aren't focused on business. It's all these other aspects of community, whether it is the natural resources, whether it's some niche tourist attraction like Jimmy Stewart. There are other things that draw people to a community. Not just focusing on business, but making sure we have a comprehensive approach to the development of our community is vitally important.

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Natalie Bulger  34:51

What was the thing that made you go, I'm throwing my name in the hat for this. I'm going to get those signatures. I'm going on that ballot. Because that is a huge decision. And again, at 26 to make that choice — what was that thought process like?

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Trajan Jones  35:21

I think it's something I've always seen myself doing eventually. And the opportunity was there because there was really nobody else interested in running. That's been a sort of pattern over the last couple of years in regard to this position specifically. At the end of the day, I want to win. But that's not ultimately the main goal. The main goal is to engage residents and get them involved in the voting and the civic processes. The current representative not having any competition doesn't serve anybody — it doesn't serve the community, it doesn't serve him. That was a big driver in my decision. But it was also an opportunity I didn't want to wait on anymore. A lot of people get frustrated thinking they can't make a difference, don't know where to start. This was that opportunity for me. As frustrated internally as I get thinking, I wish something would happen — this was my chance to make something happen and not just wait for it. I am young, so this isn't the end-all-be-all for me. But throughout the process, win or lose, I'm going to grow professionally and personally. It just seemed like too good of an opportunity to pass up. It definitely wasn't an easy decision. There was some nerves, there's still some anxiety in terms of putting myself out there as a public figure. But it's something I'm passionate about in terms of community and creating a strong community. I don't necessarily see it as a sacrifice. I'm willing to take this on if it means making those improvements.

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Natalie Bulger  37:05

You mentioned something I hope folks take away as a challenge — maybe they mention it to someone they know who might have enough of a spark to do this. If we don't force the conversation, the conversation will never happen. If someone runs unopposed, there's no opportunity to really say, what are you planning to do for the next two to four years? We have a lot of those unopposed processes. And it's a great transition to something that was on our list — this partisan divide. We've gotten very much to two ends of the spectrum. There are times where you walk in and you don't even know how to enter this conversation without it becoming fireworks. That ability for someone — if it's a Democrat in a red area or a Republican in a very blue area — to at least say, let's have a two-sided conversation that makes sense. It takes the right people to do that. What is that partisan divide we're facing right now? And how do we as a community have a less reactive approach? What would you encourage us to think about if we're listening to someone who doesn't think the same way as us? And how are you approaching it when you talk to people who say they would never vote for the other party?

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Trajan Jones  38:37

When people think about politics, their first reaction is to go to the big level stuff — the national stuff, anything to do with identity. It's not to say those things aren't important. But what I've found is that when people focus on politics that affect their everyday life, essentially that's going to be your local politics. When you bring it down to that level, you start realizing you're not all that different. We all want the same thing from our government. We want to feel safe. We want to feel like we have an opportunity to be involved. The idea is that when we get to this level, we're not all that different. And so that's where I try to start my conversations, especially if it's with somebody I may not see eye to eye with — try to find that common ground initially and then allow the conversation to go from there. I think what's happening right now is a lot of people are starting from the basis of already pushing back. They think this person doesn't agree with me, there's no way we'll ever agree. But if you start from the local level or from some sort of common ground, at the end of the day you may still disagree over many, many things. But at least you're going to have that understanding and that respect — we really do want the same thing. We just may see different paths in terms of getting there.

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Natalie Bulger  40:04

What I've noticed is the ability to ask why with the right tone. When someone comes out and says I don't believe in this, and then if you ask why in a condescending sense — nothing you tell me is going to make sense to me — they lock up more. Versus: I really want to know why you feel that way, because at the heart of it we may have the very same concern as you mentioned. It's how we're thinking about addressing it. That's where we can find more commonalities. And that's hard for me because I walk in and I'm like, but why would you ever think that? Pulling back takes work. And I'm sure you've had some of that already in your door-knocking or conversations.

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Trajan Jones  40:47

It all starts, I think, with a good faith understanding — going into the conversation knowing that they call it a debate, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a debate. It's not about winning or losing or proving the other person wrong. The whole point of it is the conversation in and of itself. That's how you move something forward. At the end of the day, you still may not agree or see it eye to eye, but in just having the conversation, that's where the power of progress comes from. Initially you're not going to change your mind right away, but at least having that little nugget of another person's perspective is going to influence you in ways you probably won't even notice.

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Natalie Bulger  41:25

As we've been talking, I'm thinking about what is my goal for what I want to see in this area that I live in. It comes down to a healthy, fair, and prosperous community. But that definition has very different meaning to other people. So really putting that intent behind it — when I say healthy, this is what I mean. When I say fair, this is what I mean. When I say peaceful, those pieces.

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Trajan Jones  41:53

So as we get into the closing piece, I want folks to know where to find information about you — you've got a website, you've got social. I also want to have you remind people why it's important when they're thinking about this fall, this November — the one day Pennsylvania gets a chance to vote since we don't have early voting. What do they need to remember when they go out to those polls? Because they're going to be voting for a lot of stuff. Every US rep is up for reelection. We don't have any Senate ones here in Pennsylvania, but there's a lot happening. What should we remember about the importance of that single day and that check mark we put on that piece of paper?

I wish election day was a national holiday — I think people should have all the opportunities to get out and do it. Something to keep in mind, despite whoever you decide to vote for: I think you should be proud. You're showing up and taking part. Because it isn't just the one-day thing — that's how we always talk about it. There's really a process that goes into it. Being engaged in terms of the campaign and understanding, doing your research on the candidates and the issues — all of that goes into the end goal of getting out and voting. Understanding that it is a process and not becoming overwhelmed. Start early, start looking into these things. But when it does come down to it and you get out there, congratulate yourself. You've participated, you've been civically engaged. We put a lot of value on that here in America — the idea that we have this opportunity to democratically make decisions. Some people can be cynical. They can't see the value and think it doesn't matter. But I suggest be proud of yourself for doing that. It's a small step. Being engaged doesn't always have to be as big as running for office. It could be as small as just casting your vote, even if it's for the first time.

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Natalie Bulger  44:08

It's never too late. My husband, I think, was 36 when he voted for the very first time in his life. And I was very proud of him for that, because it does matter. Everyone's seen the news clips where someone is winning by two or three votes. It can come down to that small in some of these local conversations. This may feel a little counterintuitive based on everything we've talked about today, but I think you and I would both advocate that people educate themselves — the importance of finding the candidates' websites. There are so many objective websites out there that pull all of the stances everyone has. There's Ballotpedia, there's all these places you can go — who is my rep, what election is coming up? It'll start to inform you, but educating yourself because it is an independent decision. We are pummeled with external information all the time now. So taking a chance and now is the time — we're coming up on April. You've got all this time, as you mentioned, to look into it early and often. And then find Trajan and ask questions. You're open for those discussions, right?

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Trajan Jones  45:23

Absolutely. I encourage it. Not only does it make me feel good that somebody invested their time to go look at who I am, what I'm about — but even beyond that, they had the civic energy to come out and talk to me, to engage and participate in this process. I absolutely would encourage it. There's a lot of information on my website — it's trajanforpa.com. We also have our social media at Trajan for PA House — no dot com in that one. We try to push out as much information as we can. But having an understanding of engagement means knowing it's a two-way street. It can't just be me pushing out information. It's got to be a give and take. As much as I'm pushing out, I want you to give back to me and allow me to reflect what you think.

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Natalie Bulger  46:17

So over these next few months, and I'm not, I'm horrible at math, so what, between November and April, seven months. So what is coming up? How do you plan to get out there, see the constituents that you may be representing or being available, because you're still working, right? This is not like I quit my job and I'm out there on the road all the time. You still got a job. How are you approaching this? What should people look for?

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Trajan Jones : One thing we want to do with this campaign is get out. So like we said, I'm well connected here in Indiana. I grew up here. I know people here, but that's not going to be enough to win this. I need to get out into all the communities.

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Natalie Bulger  46:55  

I know you've got a great team behind you supporting this effort. And again, I just want to go back to if we never ask, if we never engage, if we never challenge, then we never know what change is, is possible. And the system, as much as we may not believe it was actually built to do change in a way that is controlled, that makes sense, that looks at risk, that looks at rewards, and it still requires disruption. And that's what I hear happening is this idea of how do we respectfully potentially disrupt a stagnant set of ideals or processes. So Trajan, I want to give you a second to just kind of sum up what you would love people to remember about you, about your love for Indiana or love for the district, whatever that might be as we wrap up today.

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Trajan Jones  47:47  

Yeah, think, you that would be my call to action. And we've said it several times and really that's on purpose because that's really the point that I want to hit home. Encourage people to be involved, whatever that looks like, find some sort of plan, talk to your friends, talk to your neighbors, find something that works for you and allows you to be involved in what's happening within our community. Because like I said, I wouldn't want to do this if I didn't feel like there was already a foundation of people that want to be engaged and want to be active within their community. Because like I said, this isn't about Trajan running for state representative. It's about putting somebody in the position that's willing to get out, willing to interact with the residents and willing to reflect those in the decisions they're making at Harrisburg and here at home. So to close out, yeah, get involved, definitely do some research and yeah, be active.

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Natalie Bulger  48:40

And look for the information don't expect it to just come to you uh before we got on Trajan was on the local radio station and I was like you know what I've never listened to that morning kind of show and I tapped in and you guys were talking about a walk in the area and it's the 10th year it's been going on and I'm like I had no idea I might want to go do that at some point

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Trajan Jones  48:57

It's about getting out and finding them. Maybe outside of your comfort zone, but that'll be good for you.

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Natalie Bulger  49:02

Exactly. So Trajan, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule with everything going on to have this chat. Hopefully as folks are listening to this in April, that still will resonate as time goes on. We're in a crazy set of kind of life happenings at this moment, but the message is clear that we chatted about and I think it's a great takeaway from the whole thing.

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Trajan Jones   49:09  

Thank you.

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Natalie Bulger   49:25  

Thank you again for being here. Thanks everyone for listening. Hopefully you can apply this no matter if you're in Pennsylvania or beyond that. Everyone has a local representation, local issues, and there's ways to get involved. So appreciate the time and we will talk again soon folks.